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HardCharger

Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Manila
Posts: 731

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey

Intermittent Engine Knocking and Other Stuff

Hi All!

I've been experiencing intermittent engine knocking sometimes during idle and sometimes when with power or when anti stall is kicking in. Sometimes the truck purrs along fine then the knock comes up. Sometimes it stays, sometimes it goes away.

My EGR doesn't seem to be working but more on that in a while.

Sticking in a diagnostic tool in the OBD port under the steering wheel, we found that:

1.) Fuel Injector learning not done
2.) EGR Vacuum Regulator Solenoid
3.) Exhaust Gas Recirculation - Metering Orifice Restricted

When checking, we think the code for injector number 2 (from the front) was not entered properly as one character seems to be different hence, we think, the injector learning not being done.

As for errors 2 & 3, it is presumed that they are not working as the proper pressures from properly learned injectors are not present. The EGR has not thrown up a MIL light so we think the electrics are fine, it's just not kicking in. EGR was also cleaned so it's not blocked with soot or anything. We believe that once the injectors are functioning properly, 2 & 3 will be solved as well.

So what do you all think? I need help to resolve these as the knocking really annoys me as I know that it shouldn't be that way.

18th Feb 2016 4:15am

Treebeard

Member Since: 27 Jun 2012
Location: Forest of Dean
Posts: 40

We had knocking on a 2007 tdci especially with power on in the lower rev range 1700 - 2000 ish. Plus the injector learn fault. When the garage tried to do the injector learn cycle it kept stopping part way through. The reason was that the fuel pressure relief valve had blown ( it is a one shot device). Once replaced, the injector learn cycle ran all the way through and the engine ran smoothly. We were told that tdci's that are driven gently especially on short journeys can need their fuel prv's changing regularly and that we should give it a good thrashing once a week.

18th Feb 2016 9:42pm

HardCharger

Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Manila
Posts: 731

You have to thrash them?! Seriously?!

Well, a friend of mine did say you have to drive the Pumas angrily as they love that. Looks like I was wrong with the gentle touch. Go figure.

I'll look into the fuel pressure relief valve then. Thanks Treebeard! Will keep you all posted on what I find.

By the way, where does one find the fuel pressure relief valve?

19th Feb 2016 3:41am

ericvv

Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black

Treebeard wrote:
We were told that tdci's that are driven gently especially on short journeys can need their fuel prv's changing regularly and that we should give it a good thrashing once a week.

I have 78.000 KM now. 90% of that are 10 to 12 KM journeys locally here, with speeds upto 60KMH, no trashing ever, purring happily at 1200 to 1500 RPM most of the time. Never had any problem.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
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19th Feb 2016 4:44am

Eau02467

Member Since: 20 May 2015
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 48

To go back to the original post it sounds to me like someone has swapped an injector at some point and not bothered to do the learning at all, you need to code the injectors in before the learning can be done. This is likely what is causing the engine knock, I wouldn't go looking at anything else until you have recoded the injector and had the learning done.

The EGR faults are unrelated and it is likely you will need to clean / replace the EGR. This will cause rough running and lack of power but unlikely to cause diesel knock

19th Feb 2016 7:47am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17323

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

HardCharger wrote:
You have to thrash them?! Seriously?! Well, a friend of mine did say you have to drive the Pumas angrily as they love that. Looks like I was wrong with the gentle touch. Go figure.

I'll look into the fuel pressure relief valve then. Thanks Treebeard! Will keep you all posted on what I find.

By the way, where does one find the fuel pressure relief valve?

Never believe anyone who says that an engine needs to be "thrashed" in order to run properly and reliably!

The pressure relief valve is fitted to the rear end (ie bulkhead end) of the common fuel rail. If it has failed I would expect to see irregular HP fuel rail pressures being reported via DTCs.

The injector learn may fail if the engine is not at a sufficient operating temperature (I think it's 78 degrees min) or if the VCV on the fuel pump if defective or in need of calibration. A defective VCV is a very common cause of a wide range of running faults and often will not produce any DTCs.

19th Feb 2016 9:34am

HardCharger

Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Manila
Posts: 731

Eau02467 wrote:
To go back to the original post it sounds to me like someone has swapped an injector at some point and not bothered to do the learning at all, you need to code the injectors in before the learning can be done. This is likely what is causing the engine knock, I wouldn't go looking at anything else until you have recoded the injector and had the learning done.

The EGR faults are unrelated and it is likely you will need to clean / replace the EGR. This will cause rough running and lack of power but unlikely to cause diesel knock

Hi Eau02467,

This is what we are hoping happened and will try to do the injector learn within the next few days.

Funny enough, after driving aggressively for a few weeks now, the EGR has decided to work again and reading faults through the OBD scanners verify that the no faults from the EGR, seems to be just the injector learn now.

Hopefully, that is all that is needed.

10th Mar 2016 9:05am

HardCharger

Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Manila
Posts: 731

blackwolf wrote:
HardCharger wrote:
You have to thrash them?! Seriously?! Well, a friend of mine did say you have to drive the Pumas angrily as they love that. Looks like I was wrong with the gentle touch. Go figure.

I'll look into the fuel pressure relief valve then. Thanks Treebeard! Will keep you all posted on what I find.

By the way, where does one find the fuel pressure relief valve?

Never believe anyone who says that an engine needs to be "thrashed" in order to run properly and reliably!

The pressure relief valve is fitted to the rear end (ie bulkhead end) of the common fuel rail. If it has failed I would expect to see irregular HP fuel rail pressures being reported via DTCs.

The injector learn may fail if the engine is not at a sufficient operating temperature (I think it's 78 degrees min) or if the VCV on the fuel pump if defective or in need of calibration. A defective VCV is a very common cause of a wide range of running faults and often will not produce any DTCs.

Hi blackwolf,

Will consider the VCV as a suspect as well then if the upcoming injector learn doesn't work well. So we'll look at the fuel pressure relief valve and the VCV if the injector learn does not work. How will know if it's the VCV that's giving us issues?

10th Mar 2016 9:09am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17323

Clues to a defective VCV are (a) poor running in the absence of any other DTCs, (b) irregular fuel rail pressures. The only real proof however is to replace it, carry out a fuel pump calibration cycle, and see if the problem has gone away.

10th Mar 2016 10:31am

HardCharger

Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Manila
Posts: 731

Hi blackwolf,

The engine isn't running poor, it just has knocking every now and then. Annoying. Now that the EGR decided to wake up, the engine is back to almost normal sound but you can still hear a distinct knock like before when I got it. So hopefully not the VCV?

11th Mar 2016 12:52am

HardCharger

Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Manila
Posts: 731

OK, update!

The truck no longer knocks and drives like a totally different vehicle now! All we needed to do after all is said and done (long story short) was to initiate a Pilot Correction Learning. Apparently when one of the shops I went to tried to upgrade the firmware on my ECU, there were a few catches and the update was aborted but being as such, affected the performance of the truck. Now all is well and I can't believe the difference! I guess I've been driving the truck in his inefficient state for so long I forgot how the proper feeling was! (If that makes any sense)

11th Mar 2016 7:54am

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