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garry.hingley



Member Since: 05 Feb 2016
Location: Leeds
Posts: 4

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Galway Green
Battery Isolation Switch
Hi,

has anybody fitted a battery isolation switch to a 2.4 Puma. What with all the thefts of Defenders I was thinking of isolating the battery to provide another level of security.
I have also heard that a hydraulic shut off valve can be installed between the clutch master and slave cylinders so the vehicle cannot be driven. Has anybody else heard of this?

Regards
Garry Very Happy
Post #502073 8th Feb 2016 11:52am
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Martin
Site Admin


Member Since: 02 Apr 2007
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 6605

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red
Off Topic I have changed your username to garry.hingley to cut down on spam you'd receive to your email address

Welcome to the site Smile  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW
Post #502076 8th Feb 2016 11:56am
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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2261

Re: Battery Isolation Switch
garry.hingley wrote:
Hi,

has anybody fitted a battery isolation switch to a 2.4 Puma. What with all the thefts of Defenders I was thinking of isolating the battery to provide another level of security.
I have also heard that a hydraulic shut off valve can be installed between the clutch master and slave cylinders so the vehicle cannot be driven. Has anybody else heard of this?

Regards
Garry Very Happy



Hi garry looks like i have posted a similar request to you except for a 2.2 Puma..some subjects get little response im afraid(unles you have had loads of pms on the subject of which i have had zero)I was planning to use this box from here:
http://www.fcx.co.uk/#!product/prd1/262124...off-switch but i dont know if it comes with wiring instructions!

but i was going to use this as a switch cut of switch:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Caterpillar-Batt...SwpdpVeoEE

As for the hydraulic lock i dont think its legal for the clutch as it is deffo illegal for the brakes have one fitted!Anyway good luck !
Post #502873 9th Feb 2016 9:23pm
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GREENI



Member Since: 22 Aug 2010
Location: staffs
Posts: 10381

United Kingdom 
Welcome.
I have the FCX kit fitted. Thumbs Up


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Post #502887 9th Feb 2016 9:39pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
You'll need to figure out how to deal with the alarm and BBUS with battery disconnection.

It is entirely legal to fit an hydraulic lock to the clutch, no problems at all with this. The name Mechlock comes to mind (Google with different similar spellings if need be). It is believed to be illegal to fit to the brake lines because of the risk of the vehicle becoming immobilised in a dangerous place, e.g., the middle of a level crossing.
Post #502889 9th Feb 2016 9:40pm
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Mike_B



Member Since: 23 Jan 2011
Location: Moray
Posts: 550

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Java Black
Was it X eng or Mud UK selling this item for a while? Few hundred quid though I think
Post #502953 9th Feb 2016 11:13pm
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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2261

blackwolf wrote:
You'll need to figure out how to deal with the alarm and BBUS with battery disconnection.

It is entirely legal to fit an hydraulic lock to the clutch, no problems at all with this. The name Mechlock comes to mind (Google with different similar spellings if need be). It is believed to be illegal to fit to the brake lines because of the risk of the vehicle becoming immobilised in a dangerous place, e.g., the middle of a level crossing.


Hi blackwolf how does the clutch work? do you lock it so the clutch cannot be depressed or do you depress the clutch then lock it ...will this effect the cluch mechanism over time? as we all know how good a puma clutch is!
Post #502971 10th Feb 2016 12:40am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
The hydraulic locks are in effect lockable one way valves, i.e., when unlocked fluid can flow either way, when locked fluid flows one way only.

On the clutch you'd fit the device so that when locked the clutch pedal can be depressed to throw the clutch out, but the clutch will then stay out, so no drive. It doesn't stop someone towing the vehicle away, of course, or simply cutting the hydraulic line between the slave cylinder and the lock and driving without using the clutch.

If fitted to a brake line, the device would allow the brakes to be applied but then they wouldn't release, effectively immobilising the vehicle. Again, releasing the fluid would release the brakes, but the vehicle would essentially become undrivable with no brakes. It could still be towed away.

In either scenario the real defence is that the villains would probably not know of the device before finding out that the vehicle was not drivable, and would therefore not have come prepared to tow or disable the device.

The legality of fitting a device to the brake line is interesting, since I have never been able to establish why everyone thinks it is illegal and have never found any specific legislation making it so. I think that the case may actually be that a device so fitted would be unable to gain type approval, and therefore no manufacturer sanctions this. (If anyone knows specifically what legislation if any actually makes it illegal, please say). The 'dangers' are pretty apparent, namely that the vehicle becomes immobilised in lane 3 of a busy motorway, half-way across a level-crossing in front of a train, etc. Realistically this is very unlikely, since if the vehicle is stolen it will probably end up being abandoned immobilied at the first junction or hill, i.e., in a predictable place. I would have no hesitation personally in fitting a device to a brake line.

Back in the 1980s my father had a Granada which was fitted with a lock on the brake line by the supplying main dealer, with no issues. This device impressed me so much that when I rebuilt my S1 86" in the 90s, I fitted a lock on the brake circuit since it is really the only effective security on a ragtop. It is actually very useful in other ways, for example you can apply all four wheel brakes and get out of the vehicle when winching.
Post #503013 10th Feb 2016 9:24am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
This is the device I mentioned in my earlier post: Meck Lock.

It isn't the same make was the one I used (which is no longer available) but the principle is the same.

I'm not sure where you'd buy one now, MUD used to sell them but no longer seem to.
Post #503014 10th Feb 2016 9:27am
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X4SKP



Member Since: 29 Nov 2013
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 2295

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
This is off topic from the original question Battery Isolation Switch

But I too have been looking at the Mech Lock and have the installation instructions
in pdf form, for the TD5, 200 & 300tdi Defenders.

Just trying to establish what is known for the Puma >2007 2.4 / 2.2tdci,
I can see it will be similar.

Anyone Interested PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send you the pdf.

http://www.mlsystem.co.uk/security/ SKIP
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html


Last edited by X4SKP on 10th Feb 2016 11:50am. Edited 1 time in total
Post #503045 10th Feb 2016 11:14am
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gilarion



Member Since: 05 Dec 2013
Location: Wales
Posts: 5110

Wales 2007 Defender 90 Other CSW Trident Green
Do not bother with the plastic keyed isolators versions as they are as effective as a chocolate teapot for security because plastic keys are all the same, buy,one and it will fit thousands of others. Instead go for a proper security keyed version and a metal box mounted under the vehicle that the battery cables run into otherwise with any isolator a thief will just cut and re-join the wires bypassing the switch. I have this set up with a 15 amp fuse linking the positive so that I retain power for codes and alarm but obviously 15 amp will blow if the vehicle is started with the isolator keyed in the off position. I am sure if you do a search you may find this isolator cheaper than the one for sale from vehicle wiring products.

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/prod...tor-switch

 For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at..

http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1
Post #503051 10th Feb 2016 11:27am
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garry.hingley



Member Since: 05 Feb 2016
Location: Leeds
Posts: 4

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Galway Green
Thanks for all the feedback Guy's, some interesting comments.

I dont have a wiring diagram for the 2.4 Puma but I had assumed that if I put an isolation switch on the main positive cable from the battery to the starter this would not effect the supply to the alarm / BBUS. Is this not the case? If anybody has a wiring diagram I would be most greatful.

I like the look of Gilarion's isolation switch, I might opt for one of these.

As for the Hydraulic Clutch lock, I found the Mech Lock product a while ago but thought it was a bit pricey for a valve and a bit of brake pipe. I can pick the same components up on ebay at a fraction of the cost. I was going to fit a simple on / off valve and padlock it shut when I park up. Dont see the point of a one way valve.
Post #503091 10th Feb 2016 1:44pm
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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2261

blackwolf wrote:
The hydraulic locks are in effect lockable one way valves, i.e., when unlocked fluid can flow either way, when locked fluid flows one way only.

On the clutch you'd fit the device so that when locked the clutch pedal can be depressed to throw the clutch out, but the clutch will then stay out, so no drive. It doesn't stop someone towing the vehicle away, of course, or simply cutting the hydraulic line between the slave cylinder and the lock and driving without using the clutch.

If fitted to a brake line, the device would allow the brakes to be applied but then they wouldn't release, effectively immobilising the vehicle. Again, releasing the fluid would release the brakes, but the vehicle would essentially become undrivable with no brakes. It could still be towed away.

In either scenario the real defence is that the villains would probably not know of the device before finding out that the vehicle was not drivable, and would therefore not have come prepared to tow or disable the device.

The legality of fitting a device to the brake line is interesting, since I have never been able to establish why everyone thinks it is illegal and have never found any specific legislation making it so. I think that the case may actually be that a device so fitted would be unable to gain type approval, and therefore no manufacturer sanctions this. (If anyone knows specifically what legislation if any actually makes it illegal, please say). The 'dangers' are pretty apparent, namely that the vehicle becomes immobilised in lane 3 of a busy motorway, half-way across a level-crossing in front of a train, etc. Realistically this is very unlikely, since if the vehicle is stolen it will probably end up being abandoned immobilied at the first junction or hill, i.e., in a predictable place. I would have no hesitation personally in fitting a device to a brake line.

Back in the 1980s my father had a Granada which was fitted with a lock on the brake line by the supplying main dealer, with no issues. This device impressed me so much that when I rebuilt my S1 86" in the 90s, I fitted a lock on the brake circuit since it is really the only effective security on a ragtop. It is actually very useful in other ways, for example you can apply all four wheel brakes and get out of the vehicle when winching.


hi blaxckwolf just been searching for security ideas ..where would be the best place to put the brake lock ona puma.........please pm me if you dont want to advertise !thanks in advance!
Post #544697 29th Jun 2016 10:08pm
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Tomcat 106



Member Since: 08 Jun 2015
Location: Essex, just.
Posts: 124

2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 CSW Corris Grey
Armtech hybrid battery isolator
I use one of these on my Comp Safari car. A very neat solution. The on off function is by two small push button switches which you could conceal anywhere. It has proven 100% reliable over 12 years of racing... Before that the standard "plastic key" type started to give problems due to dirt ingress and poor quality electrical contacts.
It is not cheap.....but neither is a replacement Defner!! MY15.5 110XS CSW
1956 88" S1
2004 Tomcat 106 Comp safari
Post #544882 30th Jun 2016 6:18pm
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X4SKP



Member Since: 29 Nov 2013
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 2295

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
Thanks Tomcat 106 I can see that for a competition vehicle this is ideal, as it isolates all electrical systems in the event of an incident. It states that it should not be fitted to a road going vehicle, and that it draws 1amp whist on so would drain the battery if isolation is maintained without charging.

My 'search' is to understand what options are available to electrically isolate a Puma Defender whilst maintaining all alarm (and possibly other systems). I can tackle just the Starter Motor and have a security switch capable of handling 500amps for 5 seconds that could be used. I'm looking at maybe isolating the Solenoid to the Starter as an alternative.

So my question to the forum is has anyone actually done this?...aiming for, or achieving a similar outcome.

Thanks again for your reply... Thumbs Up SKIP
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html
Post #545015 1st Jul 2016 8:05am
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