 | Home > Technical > 'Busy' steering at high speed |
 
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060   
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A worn panhard rod bushing would cause the steering to become vague and wander, so ought to be your first check.
Another possible cause could be a shock absorber that has gone bad. One of the front Heavy Track Raids on mine went off at about 35000 Km. No vibration or bouncing wheels, but the vehicle started to pull to one side and became slightly instable at speed. Made the passenger seesick with 15 min, too. Because it happened gradually, and I was mainly driving short journey at the time, it took a little while to figure that somenthing was amiss, and trace it. Koni replaced both front shocks. Good service. Your front suspension looks similar to mine....  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge 1998 Tdi 90 SW, 2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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7th Dec 2015 4:38pm |
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| Arierep Member Since: 12 Apr 2013 Location: Portugal Posts: 258  
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Wow, how do you guys keep your cars so clean?
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8th Dec 2015 10:16pm |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060
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No, Jose, mine doesnīt always look that clean, and certainly doesnīt right now. In summer I get under it and repaint and recoat anything that starts to look tatty, because I plan to keep this one for a long long time..... 1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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9th Dec 2015 5:55pm |
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Mine doesn't look like that right now either, and its getting too cold to be out crawling about in the dark cleaning it at this time of year!| Arierep Member Since: 12 Apr 2013 Location: Portugal Posts: 258
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Well, for all that matters that was meant to be a compliment (as in jealousy....)
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10th Dec 2015 6:07pm |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060
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Thanks Jose, taken ....and enjoyed to the full
 . 1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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11th Dec 2015 6:13am |
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| Bumpymike Member Since: 18 Nov 2015 Location: cheshire Posts: 71  
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If all bushes and ball joints are new.
Check out steering. Check none of uj's on steering column have wear or the pinch bolts have come loose. Check main nut on steering box holding drop arm on has not come loose. Check wear in steering box. |
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11th Dec 2015 9:01am |
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| Bumpymike Member Since: 18 Nov 2015 Location: cheshire Posts: 71
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Have you checked rear axle bushes?
They can induce rear axle steer if worn so you constantly correcting |
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11th Dec 2015 9:22am |
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| Hufflepuff Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: Hampshire Posts: 727 
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Thanks Bumpymike. All the bushes are brand new across the whole thing bar the A-frame bushes, which were assessed and found to be fine, and the front Panhard Rod bushes.
Its the latter which I now suspect is the likely problem - I'd like to pull it off this weekend but the weather doesn't look good, and i'm supposed to be Christmas shopping. I also don't want to find that pulling them off to inspect causes total break up - potentially leaving me without a car for Christmas. I'm toying with the idea of just ordering a extendable Panhard Rod (possibly the TerraFirma one at Ģ200), as we did notice when we fitted the raised suspension that it had pulled the axle across to the drivers side by about 5mm. A extendable rod could allow me to correct that problem and ensure that I've got new bushes at the same time, win-win  |
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11th Dec 2015 12:18pm |
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| Hufflepuff Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: Hampshire Posts: 727
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Right, one adjustable Panhard rod has arrived in the post today:
Click image to enlarge I got it from Devon4x4, and asked for a new set of nuts and bolts. They looked up the Land Rover part number and duly delivered them - but I find they are a couple of mm narrower than the bush's inner sleeve: Click image to enlarge Can anyone tell me if this is expected? I'm a bit confused as to why it won't just flop about when I attach it on the vehicle tomorrow - ie. what prevents the bush from moving that 2mm of play? Is it simply because the ends are gripped by the mount points on the car when they are tightened up? I can of course verify the play in the old ones when I remove them, but it would be nice to know in advance that they aren't a closer match than this. |
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18th Dec 2015 8:54pm |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2702 
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The bush inner sleeve is held tight by the sides of the mounts - i.e. it should not slop about or rotate. All the movement is within the flex of the rubber in the bush. However yours is not right. Every one I've done the bolt has been a nice fit into the bush sleeve. Are you 100% sure you have the right bolts for the year of the car?
Genuine bushes every time as well, nothing else is worth bothering with. |
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18th Dec 2015 9:19pm |
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| Hufflepuff Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: Hampshire Posts: 727
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Yeah that is what I was worried about, thanks retroanaconda. The bushes are not standard, some sort of polyurethane I think. It seems hard to buy an extendable panhard bar without poly-bushes already fitted.
It was quite an expensive bar (from Bearmach), much more than the equivalent Terrafirma one, D44 felt it was heavier duty. Perhaps I will query the local Landy shop in the mornng. |
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18th Dec 2015 9:26pm |
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| I Like Old Skool Member Since: 23 Feb 2015 Location: Manchester Posts: 828 
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When you remove the old one the truth will be revealed. TBH the bolt doesn't have to be a tight fit as the mount brackets should close to clamp the bush inner sleeve. Don't be afraid of re-using the original bolts. The OEM ones are often vastly superior to the 'cheapest available' alternatives provided by aftermarket suppliers.
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18th Dec 2015 10:16pm |
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| Petronius4 Member Since: 07 Oct 2015 Location: Somerset Posts: 94 
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Check front tyres for abnormal wear (or damage from your greenlaning). Had this once on my ex-MOD and it turned out to be a bit of tyre damage on the inside wall of the NS tyre - not a massive piece of damage either but enough to make me George Peppard/MR T for a few days... -------------------------------
ðēðŧ 1986 ex-Military 90 NAD 2.5 Soft Top. Sold ðŽð§ 2015 Defender 90 - Ripon Landrover Heritage 006 |
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18th Dec 2015 10:53pm |
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| Hufflepuff Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: Hampshire Posts: 727
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The new bolts did turn out to be the wrong size as we suspected - they are 14mm in diameter, whereas the old bolt was 16mm at the head, then stepped down to 15mm for some reason a little way in.
Click image to enlarge I had a 'bit of a moment' trying to remove the lower one - there was no way I was undoing it from the nut side (which is on the back on the lower one) with a ring spanner. Then realised over a cuppa that I could just prevent the nut from moving with the ring spanner, and use the mighty-big-bar number 1 to undo it from the front by turning the bolt head directly. Click image to enlarge That step on the below picture must be the manufacturing right, and not wear? It looks far too neat for wear within the sleeve - and its also 'exactly' 15mm. I don't understand the design philosophy of that though, since the wide part will be in the sleeve anyway. Click image to enlarge I took Old Skool's advice and reused the old bolt, unfortunately I didn't have a new nyloc nut to reused that too, I'll aim to get one shortly. It was a much better fit. Click image to enlarge Choosing how far to extend the bar was a bit hit and miss. With the vehicle raised its difficult to accurately judge how far each wheel is sitting inside their respective arches. So I decided to go with my gut feel, and give it 5 half-turns. With the bolt in one end to keep them lined up, this gave an offset at the other end of: Click image to enlarge But when I came to fit it on the car - I could barely see the hole so realised this was way more than the 5mm or so that I wanted. I wound it back off until it was just 2 half-turns longer than the original, which (assuming the body hadn't moved during the job) gave a much more satisfactory difference: Click image to enlarge Pushing on the body (luckily there was the house wall next to push off against) aligned it surprisingly easily, I thought I might have come unstuck at this point. That just left tightening them up to the required torque. The book states 230Nm for the post 2002 vehicles, which is a bit of a problem given that my 1/2" torque wrench only goes up to 200Nm. So I did it to 200, then another quarter of a turn with the big bar (which takes it into the f'ing tight rating) which I hope it about right. Voila, job done One quick wax-oil later:
Click image to enlarge Now bearing in mind that to my eye - the bush on the existing panhard bar looked intact with no outward sign of wear, I was not expecting any significant improvement. However - on an initial test drive, the difference is remarkable. I need a full motorway run to confirm - but it goes straight again at 60mph on a bumpy A-Road
Whether it was the re-alignment which has made the difference or the new bushes I don't know, but I think thanks in no small part to Defender2.net, we have a winner.  Thanks lads! |
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19th Dec 2015 9:09pm |
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