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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17336
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Agree, punched and folded from the backplate, not very strong. It is a prototype though so this may be addressed on production versions. It would be harder to wrench the padlock off anyway since with most wheels it is likely to be within the 'dish' of the wheel.

I am thinking that a system combining the best featues of each, but slightly different to any proposed sofar, might be the ideal.

Incidentally some time ago I bought a number of very high quality puck type locks on which the rim is chamfered, ie the lock is shaped like a slice out of a cone, which would make it impossible to grip them with a Stilson.

An alternative in this application would be to add a shield, possibly one free to rotate, around the outside of the lock. Maybe include bump key protection too. There are many fairly easy ways to make it much harder for Johnny Villain.

Last edited by blackwolf on 29th Sep 2015 10:08pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #459148 29th Sep 2015 9:59pm
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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2261
leeds wrote:
In my opinion it is stupid to spread information on how to overcome any security device.

That second photograph can be easily overcome.

First photograph what is the shear strength of 8mm bolts? OK multiply by 3


Now I doubt 3' stilsons and 6' of scaffold poles are standard equipment of the opportinist scumbags

Now what is the expression? Layers of security??


Brendan


Are you calling me stupid Brenden?I do take offence at that!Lets just agree to differ ..if you cannot take opinions of others that differs from yours ...well that says a lot about you! !pardon me for saying this but you appear a little self righteous when it comes to security!Its my opinion that the more information out there for owners the better! you obviously dont ..can we leave it at that without the insults !...................i hope your lock sells like hot cakes i really do but i wont be buying one unless they beef up the hasp/flange thingy!
Post #459149 29th Sep 2015 10:06pm
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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2261
blackwolf wrote:
Agree, punched and folded from the backplate, not very strong. It is a prototype though so this may be addressed on production versions. It would be harder to wrench the padlock off anyway since with most wheels it is likely to be within the 'dish' of the wheel.

I am thinking that a system combining the best featues of each, but slightly different to any proposed sofar, might be the ideal.

Incidentally some time ago I bought a number of very high quality puck type locks on which the rim is chamfered, ie the lock is shaped like a slice out of a cone, which would make it impossible to grip them with a Stilson.

An alternative in this application would be to add a shield, possibly one free to rotate, around the outside of the lock. Maybe include bump key protection too. There are many fairly easy ways to make it much harder for Johnny Villain.


Sounds like a plan Blackwolf ....what about a collar/shroud that is welded to the front plate(or the front plate could be one piece pressed with a collar in situ) that the lock drops into so its flush with the collar and with and a cutout to access the lock for the key..anyway i am keen to see the results!
Post #459151 29th Sep 2015 10:20pm
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8580
United Kingdom 
I did not call you stupid. I said it was stupid to spread information which is helpful to the enemy!

The size of the hasp is dictated by the opening in the standard puck lock. So there is a limit on that without redesigning the puck lock.

As BW says the lock is in the dish of the wheel so it would be difficult to get a Stilston square on to it. Most puck locks have a chamfered outer edge. I wonder what that design feature is for?

At least Nakatanenga is trying to come up with a device which will fit most wheels without having to modify the wheel carrier. However any security device has to be cost effective. There would not be many sales of a £1,000 security device to protect a spare wheel costing £150-£250

Layers of security

1) The humble wheel cover! Now is there a nice shiny alloy with a brand new tyre on or is it a rusty steel rim with a bald tyre on?

2). 'Security'. Nut or nuts

3). Cable or chain with padlock

4). Some 'security' device which covers the wheel nuts

Each layer just slows down the scumbags it is not 100% certain to deter the determined thief. Every layer can be overcome with enough time, the right tool and no worries about noise generated

Now does the scumbag just move on to the next Defender, or do they say sod it, get the trolley jack out and a pile of bricks and steals the other 4 wheels?

Brendan
Post #459155 29th Sep 2015 11:02pm
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610
United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Most puck locks I see on the rear of work vans have a thick metal shroud (as mentioned) surrounding it. You can only get stilsons on if you have access obviously! Mind you they may turn up with liquid oxygen the appropriate IPE and a hammer?

Rolling with laughter



Anything is better than nothing and the layered approach is best. IMO spare wheels being stolen is a 'minority issue in the overall scheme of protecting your pride and joy, but one I got round to after everything else. If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #459174 30th Sep 2015 7:04am
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8580
United Kingdom 
Why worry about the spare wheel?



Click image to enlarge

I would think that owner would have been 'happier' if just his spare wheel had been stolen. Or less unhappy.


Mal, if you want something more effective then liquid oxygen, try liquid nitrogen or even better some liquid helium which is getting close to absolute zero. Maybe I should go and see my ex work colleagues? Whistle Whistle

How about some hydraulic cutters readily available at your local fire station?

I would imagine most spare wheels are stolen by opportunist thieves who want a quick getaway rather then the determined scumbag who comes tooled up with every means to overcome security devices. The biggest problem with stealing wheels is just jacking up the vehicle!


Brendan
Post #459186 30th Sep 2015 8:05am
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610
United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Agree, no point worrying about the spare if the whole truck's gone!

Scenario....... Hypothetically if a spare wheel lock costs ballpark the same amount as a recommended and well-supported tracker unit and you have neither which should take priority? If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #459188 30th Sep 2015 8:26am
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nakatanenga



Member Since: 12 Nov 2010
Location: Neumarkt
Posts: 546
Germany 
OMG!

The pictures show a thin sheet metal prototype! The mass production will be 3mm stainless with a collar around the lock.

Wheels are kind a "deep dish" so it is not that easy to grab the lock etc WANTED:

SII or SIII in max 1.5k
Post #459199 30th Sep 2015 9:09am
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Venomator



Member Since: 25 Aug 2014
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 2087
United Kingdom 
^ ^ ^
Is it possible to see something of a more refined 'Prototype then please Peter... Whistle

Thanks... Mr. Green  Rog... Mr. Green
The GREEN One...

MY2016 Urban Truck Build Thread - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic40548....al[/color]
Post #459256 30th Sep 2015 1:16pm
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nakatanenga



Member Since: 12 Nov 2010
Location: Neumarkt
Posts: 546
Germany 
Keep calm and wait please.... WANTED:

SII or SIII in max 1.5k
Post #459266 30th Sep 2015 1:44pm
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Venomator



Member Since: 25 Aug 2014
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 2087
United Kingdom 
^ ^ ^
Rolling with laughter

Man with whetted appetite does not remain calm for long... Whistle

And my build progresses at an unstoppable pace... Mr. Green  Rog... Mr. Green
The GREEN One...

MY2016 Urban Truck Build Thread - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic40548....al[/color]
Post #459267 30th Sep 2015 1:47pm
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RRUK
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Member Since: 31 Mar 2010
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 2025
United Kingdom 
If we could all live with a rubbish spare wheel just for emergencies then no one would care, including aforementioned scumbags! 2016 D4 HSE

1998 110 TUM HS FFR Hard Top XD WOLF

1982 Series 3 SWB Petrol
Post #459313 30th Sep 2015 4:27pm
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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2261
nakatanenga wrote:
OMG!

The pictures show a thin sheet metal prototype! The mass production will be 3mm stainless with a collar around the lock.

Wheels are kind a "deep dish" so it is not that easy to grab the lock etc


Be homest now Peter !was the collar in the original desigh?i will believe you! honest! Whistle
Post #459318 30th Sep 2015 4:41pm
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610
United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
As Blackwolf correctly stated....

blackwolf wrote:
..... It is a prototype though so this may be addressed on production versions.......


It doesn't really matter if the collar was an afterthought or not! The whole concept of a prototype is that it can be developed and advanced upon. Getting the prototype out there to gauge opinion and see if there are any constructive ideas or feedback for the final version is the way to go! Glad to hear it will have a collar on, undoubtedly this addition will increase the attractiveness for those that may wish to purchase one, deter the thieves further and make those that may wish to pour scorn on the idea have to search a damn sight longer and harder on the internet to defeat it.

Whistle If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #459319 30th Sep 2015 4:51pm
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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2261
Are you getting at me k9?Im a simple fella and i came upon the original post by Peter and thought it was an interestihg idea........i had never heard of a puck lock so i put puck lock into google and got the video i posted at the top of the list and i thought other defender owners would be interested! THen having seen the video it appeared to me that the flange of hasp om the lock was a week point ....then brenden jumped in infering i was stupid to post the video and peter posts omg and there will now be a shroud but implying that it was his intention all along to shroud the lock..............I agree with you that it doesnt matter whether the collar was an afterthought but if i had designed something put it out for view on a public forum i would willingly acknowledge the contribution of others to the final design ....peter is obviously not that sort of bloke and good luck to him!
Post #459331 30th Sep 2015 5:47pm
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