 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Diesel mystery knock on the highway |
 
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, but should illustrate the phenomenon
| robharvey Member Since: 14 Dec 2009 Location: Durban Posts: 86   
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Sounds like an injector issue. Ask your dealer to do an injector "re-learn". They basically reset the injectors.
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31st Jul 2015 11:57am |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4655 
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Yes, loud knocking on start up or when idling. But in later stages the engine sounded rattly and rough all of the time. It takes time for the damage to get serious. Mine was in it's six year of ownership when it got really bad. The maindealer fought my corner and told LR how religiously I had it serviced and just how much a pain in the a**e I could be to make sure everything was done right. So as there was a bulletin issued (which I didn't know about until I started digging) to dealers to change engines when this was reported in the warranty period LR stumped up most of the cost for me. Six years old and three years out of warranty, so it was an O.K. deal which I was more than happy with. It only effected engines within a certain vin range and mine was one of them. Actually it was a very painless and quick exercise once I left the vehicle into the maindealer. Only took a couple of weeks from diagnosis to engine swap. The maindealer had my service history except for one oil change which I got done locally when the vacuum brake pump was changed out of warranty. I did'nt fancy driving all of the way down to the maindealer with oil spewing over the enginebay and the road causing a danger to me and others. LR wanted proof that the oil used for this oil change met their specs. I forwarded a copy of the receipt for the oil to them and they were happy with it. You cannot blame them for checking this. The oil used was Total Quartz 9000 future NFC 5W-30. Anyway it all ended well. http://www.micksgarage.com/proddetails.aspx?pid=1214866 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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31st Jul 2015 3:12pm |
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| enfield_dinosaur Member Since: 14 Jun 2015 Location: Tertius orbis Posts: 120 
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Quick update for everyone else still researching about the same problem - I now got a hint that it could be a part called "cam follower". Could be pricey. Will investigate further...
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6th Aug 2015 5:24pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298  
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I'm guessing if it's a cam follower;
a- it would be rpm related and not throttle position b- it wouldn't be overly expensive being a over head cam engine? I ain't really got a clue but that's my thoughts? good luck whatever. |
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7th Aug 2015 6:21am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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I had to take a big breath before writing this as I don't want to believe it's true
I suspect the sound is similar to what you're saying but are the symptoms the same ...or just similar. so lets say I'm coasting at about 50mph on a slight down hill in top - smooth and sweet as can been. If I apply a very light throttle I get the sound / the clatter /injector knock. I bit heavier on the throttle and it can go away. similarly if I'm cruising at say 40mph in top and then come to a slight incline sometimes the engine is sweet as can be but other times I'll get the clatter. I'm going back several years here and still believe there's an issue with the turbo. and the clatter is there due to the turbo not being up to speed for those conditions. Its as though the turbo is being very lazy on low throttle. thing is it's a relatively new turbo and these conditions were the same before and after fitting the turbo so to my mind it's back to the wiring  |
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7th Aug 2015 7:04am |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5695 
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I wouldn't think turbo, as it's not being used with such light throttle.
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7th Aug 2015 9:05am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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not sure but it's like it goes away when the turbo is buzzing away doing it's thing
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7th Aug 2015 9:07am |
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| enfield_dinosaur Member Since: 14 Jun 2015 Location: Tertius orbis Posts: 120
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I'm just now gearing up for a little test drive with my GoPro, recording sights and sounds. I'll trigger the phenomenon on the highway and put it here in a couple of minutes. Then we'll know if it's the same thing we're talking about...
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7th Aug 2015 9:08am |
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| enfield_dinosaur Member Since: 14 Jun 2015 Location: Tertius orbis Posts: 120
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Sorry for the bad sound quality, I think I have to do it again. The GoPro microphone sucks, so I had to use the phone.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/59xmvxvqg8vyvau/....aiff?dl=0 You can hear me accelerating, and then there's a little phase in between where the usual diesel knock turns into the harsh RRR-sound. It's more pronounced if I step of the gas, like some "after knock". If I hold my foot in the right position, I can sustain it. I think not much can be gained from this sound file, but it's better then nothing. Will try and record a better one as soon as I can. It gets louder when the engine is warm. Also - when driving today, I found it much more subdued in general. I put premium diesel in the tank last week, perhaps, perhaps, it's really an injector coked up and getting better now. In any case, I will persist. If only to find out wheter I now hear ghosts or am onto something. The Landy is booked for the workshop next week, let's see what a proper mechanic will say about it. |
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7th Aug 2015 10:25am |
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| enfield_dinosaur Member Since: 14 Jun 2015 Location: Tertius orbis Posts: 120
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I also do not think it's a cam follower. If it was, it should be audible all the time. Same for tappets, etc. Correct me if I am wrong, but shouldn't it tick then when idling?
At the workshop, I'll have them check the sound for three explanations: - it's normal for an older Diesel (MY2007) - injection behaving strangely, due to dirt or miscalculation under certain parameters. - a piston is not running smoothly, but it's still good enough so it's only perceptible when the car is under load, warm and going fast. I'm determined to get to the bottom of this, will keep you posted. |
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7th Aug 2015 10:56am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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to my mind if it's to do with the injector learn it should do the same thing 100% of the time under the same / similar conditions - does it 100% of the time?
if it's similar to mine I suspect it's one of two things (but obviously not sure); a - sticking injector / dirty / faulty b - turbo lazy not spinning up as early as it should on light throttle - if it's not providing the right amount of air would it cause what sounds like injector knock due to incorrect mixture but within emission tolerance and therefore not causing a fault code? I don't know if 'b' would cause the knocking sound but it's the one I'd be mostly likely to put a wager on in my case. good luck. |
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7th Aug 2015 11:05am |
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| enfield_dinosaur Member Since: 14 Jun 2015 Location: Tertius orbis Posts: 120
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If that info helps, I did in fact have fault codes related to emissions and mixture.
The always popular P1103, "mass air flow higher but expected but in range" comes up quite often. It triggers when a faulty AGR fails to open properly, so the system pulls more air then it should. This, of course, messes up fuel ignition as well. And my turbo sounds like a starting helicopter as well. I will have the gaskets checked soon. So. could be. |
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7th Aug 2015 11:15am |
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| thujack Member Since: 04 Mar 2017 Location: Durban Posts: 3
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@enfield_dinosaur - Did you ever find a solution to this problem. My 2.4 Puma does the exact same thing and have also been unable to solve it. Would love to find the solution.
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13th Mar 2017 10:38am |
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| enfield_dinosaur Member Since: 14 Jun 2015 Location: Tertius orbis Posts: 120
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Hi thujack,
I have since sold the truck and the problem was never really found out. However - it's sucessor, my current Defender, has revealed the probable cause. My current Puma (at 70k miles) developed trouble with knocking as well. I traced it back to trouble with the injectors. Not only the copper washers were done for, two injectors were starting to leak. And I think the latter was also the problem with my old truck - injectors leaking at certain throttle settings, therefore causing the knock within the peculiar window of parameters Did you check for injector leak yet? In the end, with my new truck, I had four new injectors fitted. The cost was eyewatering, but all knocking troubles are since gone. Hope this helps! P.S.: ZA? You're from the most beautiful country in the world. |
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13th Mar 2017 1:48pm |
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