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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5940
United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue
Any household sparks?
About 5 years ago I fitted a new electric shower and works fine.
About 18months ago, we had the fuse box upgraded from wire fuse to a modern one with breakers.
Spark checked out the wiring before (found a few faults on the socket circuit (and fixed) and after so now all good.
In the last week or so the shower breaker has been tripping out.
Pull the shower switch and the 'on' light on the pull switch box and the shower power light lit for a split second and then went out - breaker tripped

Reset and shower all works fine. Finish shower and then pull the cord a few times and all working fine - no tripping.

Now with the shower off and the pull switch off I was sitting on the couch and behind me in the cupboard is the fuse box I heard the breaker trip - This is about 10 - 15 mins of turning off the shower.

So any thoughts? I will be giving the spark a call to get advice but thought it worth while asking on here as well. (given the variety of professions on here) 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock
Post #423875 15th May 2015 8:53pm
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610
United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Could be dampness. Initially when turning on and the breaker trips any moisture could be being burnt off. Having used the shower the humidity will rise and condensation could be tripping out the power. From your symptoms and the breaker tripping with the pull cord off I would guess the problem lies in the pull cord switch itself. A few tests with an insulation tester would prove this. If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

Last edited by K9F on 15th May 2015 9:32pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #423894 15th May 2015 9:23pm
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Scoobeenut



Member Since: 04 Mar 2015
Location: West London
Posts: 310
United Kingdom 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Santorini Black
What rating is the shower in kilowatts? And what rating is the circuit breaker in amps? It is a bit difficult to diagnose without seeing really, it could be a loose connection somewhere in the pull switch or the shower itself, might be best to get a sparks in to check it over.
Post #423897 15th May 2015 9:27pm
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610
United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
If it's tripping when off the rating of the breaker is immaterial. Current = Power divided by Voltage. therefore a 9 kilowatt shower would be protected by a 40 amp breaker.

Thumbs Up If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #423898 15th May 2015 9:31pm
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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5940
United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue
K9F wrote:
Could be dampness. Initially when turning on and the breaker trips the moisture could be being burnt off. Having used the shower the humidity will rise and condensation could be tripping out the power. From your symptoms and the breaker tripping with the pull cord off I would guess the problem lies in the pull cord switch itself. A few tests with an insulation tester would prove this.


Cheers. Would that explain why it trips with the pull cord off and 10-15 mins later?
No insulation tester here and no idea how to use one. So it will be a spark me thinks.

I am going to look at the pull cord box and see what's what and maybe change it.? 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock
Post #423900 15th May 2015 9:32pm
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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5940
United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue
Scoobeenut wrote:
What rating is the shower in kilowatts? And what rating is the circuit breaker in amps? It is a bit difficult to diagnose without seeing really, it could be a loose connection somewhere in the pull switch or the shower itself, might be best to get a sparks in to check it over.


Not sure what the rating is, but its been fine for the last few years. I am leaning more towards the pull cord box / breaker/wiring? As the breaker tripped when it had been turned off for 10-15 mins (both shower and pull cord) 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock
Post #423902 15th May 2015 9:34pm
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sparkylee



Member Since: 06 Nov 2010
Location: surrey
Posts: 1455
2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 DCPU Santorini Black
Is it a MCB (no test button) tripping off or a RCBO / RCD (these units will both have a test button near the tripped lever)
The MCB will protect against overload while straight RCD protects against earth leakage and the RCBO will protect against both. Most likely either burnt out cables touching in the back of the switch or inside shower unit combined with possible water/ moisture
Good luck
You can message me if you need any more help Thumbs Up It's good to be back from the dark side


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Post #423907 15th May 2015 9:49pm
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Scoobeenut



Member Since: 04 Mar 2015
Location: West London
Posts: 310
United Kingdom 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Santorini Black
Does the fusebox have an RCD fitted? If the circuit breaker is tripping it is either an overload fault or a short circuit, if the RCD trips then it will be an earth fault.
Post #423908 15th May 2015 9:49pm
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noworries4x4



Member Since: 24 Dec 2010
Location: Newton Abbot Devon
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England 
If it is damp/ water ingress in the switch it will be tripping the earth leakage and the whole house will be dead (or circuits protected if a split board) but if it is only tripping the shower circuit it is internal in the shower unit ie heater coil to trip the 40 amp not the pump. If everything is under control you are not going fast enough.

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Post #423909 15th May 2015 9:50pm
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sparkylee



Member Since: 06 Nov 2010
Location: surrey
Posts: 1455
2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 DCPU Santorini Black
Also if the MCB has been overloaded for a while it will weakened the tripping mechanism almost causing it to trip randomly when used for any period, but unusual for it to go after the unit switched off for a while not in use. But strange things happen It's good to be back from the dark side


DC110 -2012 Black with black hood and black x-tech
FFRR 4.2 vogue
Renault traffic auto
PT crusier convertible
Laika x700 Motorhome
Post #423911 15th May 2015 9:52pm
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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5940
United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue
Thanks for the replies chaps.
Update time. Went for a shower but before I tried I checked the breaker and off. So flick it back on shower worked fine, mrs jumped in after me and then mid shower it went off.
So checked breaker and it was off - but the breaker was warm.

So maybe a short, (but why not trip when as soon as its used?), duff breaker? Too much current draw (but why start now after a 18months of service unless the breaker has gone bad?

Time to get the spark back to do his stuff.
I can take a picture of the breaker if it helps? 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock
Post #424233 17th May 2015 6:29pm
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sparkylee



Member Since: 06 Nov 2010
Location: surrey
Posts: 1455
2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 DCPU Santorini Black
Prob overloaded as I mentioned just been running slightly above its rating for its life, or the shower has a slight fault causing it to run at a higher amp
But would check rating of the shower unit and get new MCB but make sure the cable is the right size to take the rating of the MCB etc Thumbs Up It's good to be back from the dark side


DC110 -2012 Black with black hood and black x-tech
FFRR 4.2 vogue
Renault traffic auto
PT crusier convertible
Laika x700 Motorhome
Post #424235 17th May 2015 6:37pm
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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5940
United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue
Thanks Lee. I have emailed the spark who did the work in Jan 2014

I hope I dont need to run new wire. it could be a PITA! If its a new shower then so be it.
The breaker has R32 on if that helps? 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock
Post #424239 17th May 2015 6:42pm
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sparkylee



Member Since: 06 Nov 2010
Location: surrey
Posts: 1455
2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 DCPU Santorini Black
32a got to say if it's got a heating element in it and it's not just a pump shower unit for which 32a would be high, that's very small, if that makes sense ?
Most I fit have 40a so that might be problem
You'd need to check rating of shower and also cable size and length of run It's good to be back from the dark side


DC110 -2012 Black with black hood and black x-tech
FFRR 4.2 vogue
Renault traffic auto
PT crusier convertible
Laika x700 Motorhome
Post #424245 17th May 2015 7:14pm
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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5940
United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue
I will check the rating of the shower. Its not a fancy one. And yes it did make sense. 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock
Post #424249 17th May 2015 7:23pm
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