 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Oil pump question |
 
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| Cuthbert Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: Up North Posts: 1535  |
Don't you just love Ford 'value-engineering'.
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23rd Jan 2015 7:25pm |
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| Fujixs90 Member Since: 19 Jun 2014 Location: Yarm Posts: 28  
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Been doing recalls on 2.2 boxers now to due to a "enhanced" oil pump. I'm tempted to buy one from work and fit it myself, cos mines done 17k and already had a turbo due to it being noisy, and now my 3k old turbo is becoming rather whirl when cold.
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23rd Jan 2015 9:26pm |
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| vito115 Member Since: 29 Aug 2012 Location: kent Posts: 29 |
Ive got a Boxer........... 3 litre
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23rd Jan 2015 10:02pm |
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| TomB Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: Limburg Posts: 7 
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we change the oil all 5000km because of the "oil quality low" DTC 253f00
yes, we use the correct oil 
 Click image to enlarge |
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24th Jan 2015 6:36am |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816  
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As to the oil quality in a Puma 2.2 with DPF... Is the oil quality maybe deteriorating (much) faster than with a Puma 2.4 due to the regular DPF cleaning cycles when each time apparently small quantities of diesel fuel are left behind in/added to the engine oil, which with each cleaning cycle gradually lowers oil quality? If that is the case, probably wise for Puma 2.2 DPF owners to indeed replace their oil at much faster intervals than prescribed by LR.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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24th Jan 2015 6:50am |
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| TomB Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: Limburg Posts: 7
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Yes it's a problem of the DPF cleaning.
Another problem is, that our Defender does not display "oilservce" even when the DTC 253f00 is stored. |
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24th Jan 2015 6:56am |
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| 2hooky Member Since: 30 Dec 2014 Location: cotswolds Posts: 28 
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interesting read!b I posted under another subject on this forum as my 2013 Defender xs dcpu suffered a complete power failure on the motorway and has been at the dealers for some time now. We went through the shopping list from LR from failed injectors to cracked cylinder head !! but it now seems to me that its this oil pump issue. I have done 76k miles and it was serviced in January at the dealers - so oil in good condition and the right type (I hope!) When it failed, no warning lights came up - it just cut out. I did try and start it again and it sounded like a bag of bits!
As one of the posters said, if you only do low miles and the vehicle doesnt fail in warranty period, you are sitting on a potential time bomb! It must surely be a recall by LR ? |
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14th Feb 2015 7:16am |
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| 2hooky Member Since: 30 Dec 2014 Location: cotswolds Posts: 28
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I also forgot to mention it is in for replacement of the clutch release bearing - for the second time!
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14th Feb 2015 7:20am |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558 
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even a lot of "devoted" transit fans are going off transits now
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14th Feb 2015 8:53am |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4709 
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It seems that the pumps are failing because they are clogging up with the engine oil/diesel mixture that results from the diesel contaminating the engine oil when the diesel is used in the dpf regeneration. A mechanic who was working on my 2.4 Puma at a Land Rover/Ford maindealership told me he's come across a lot of transits where the oil was like jelly when being changed. He recommended that I cut the Land Rover service interval for oil changes for my 2.4 in half i.e. every six months or every 6,000 miles. He changed my gearbox oil at 2 yearly or 24,000 mile intervals as he maintained that the Land Rover service interval for this was too long especially when looking at the state of the gearbox oil. So a sensible sort of chap.
He maintained that the Puma with the dpf needed to be driven "well" occasionally with more frequent oil changes than recommended in the service schedule. Well travelled Transits were regenerating the dpf very regularly which resulted in the engine oil getting contaminated big time owing to the amount of diesel getting into the engine oil. You will recall that Land Rover maintain that where a vehicle is used in "arduous conditions i.e. frequent wading or very dusty conditions" that the engine oil and gearbox oil be checked weekly or even daily and changed if necessary. It seems that with the Puma fitted with a dpf this will fall into "more frequent oil change situation". So hypothetically this could mean a monthly oil change for vehicles that go through a lot of dpf regeneration cycles. It seems that the only way to keep on top of the oil contamination is to check it daily on the dipstick and when the consistency begins to change, change the oil and filter. If you run the dipstick between two closed fingers then open your fingers you'll get a rough idea as to the consistency of the oil. I know a local mechanic who does this. So to keep your 2.2 Puma engine going long term it seems that you could be looking at a minimum of four oil and filter changes a year. This is not the horror story it seems. I ran a 200 tdi Defender 110 station wagon for 16 years as the family car. They oil and filter were changed every 3,000 miles. Then again the engine oil for the 200 tdi was nowhere as expensive as the oil for the 2.2 Puma with the dpf. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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18th Mar 2015 12:19am |
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| vito115 Member Since: 29 Aug 2012 Location: kent Posts: 29 |
i had a 2.2 (dpf) transit and used to change the oil every 20k & had no problems. I thought with the dpf filter it put diesel into the filter to burn the crap off ? how would that allow diesel to mix with the engine oil ?
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18th Mar 2015 8:27am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17450 
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I am no expert on the subject, but I think the problem is to do with how the diesel is injected into the DPF.
The two approaches are (1) have a separate injector in the DPF itself or just upstream of it in the exhaust, this is relatively benign and causes few problems, but is expensive, or (2) program the ECU to blast fuel through the usual injectors whilst the exhaust valves are open, in the hope that it is swept into the DPF. This is cheap and consequently is now the almost universally adopted method. This tends to leave excess fuel in the cyulinder which then tends to migrate past the rings into the sump, taking carbon and other crappy combustion by products with it, and eventually increasing significantly the risk of catastrophic engine failure. |
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18th Mar 2015 8:46am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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Has anyone tested that theory? It may well be correct with whatever they are adding to the oil to make it dpf specific; however, generically I'd have thought that diesel in the oil would just act as a thinning agent rather than turn it to jelly. Also, wouldn't the jelly also accumulate in the sump and so be visible on the dipstick? |
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18th Mar 2015 8:56am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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From the MY13 Workshop Manual: "Engine Oil Dilution Engine oil dilution can occur due to small amounts of fuel entering the engine crankcase during the post-injection phases. This has made it necessary to introduce a calculation based on driving style to reduce oil service intervals if necessary. The driver is alerted to the oil service by a message in the instrument cluster. The DPF software monitors the driving style and the frequency of the active regeneration and duration. Using this information a calculation can be made on the engine oil dilution. When the DPF software calculates the engine oil dilution has reached a predetermined threshold (fuel being 7% of engine oil volume) a service message is displayed in the instrument cluster. Depending on driving style, some vehicles may require an oil service before the designated interval. If a service message is displayed, the vehicle will be required have a full service and the service interval counter will be reset." |
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18th Mar 2015 9:00am |
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