 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Puma 2.2 judders/kangaroos 1st and 2nd |
 
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| Iktank Member Since: 08 Nov 2014 Location: Porthcawl Posts: 237   
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Update
Now done 3000 miles since my OP, do love driving the vehicle but continually find I am gritting my teeth when changing to second, I find all other gears fine and have no issue with rev hang feature, just that bloody 2nd gear 
If I am accelerating of the mark and changing from first above 2500 revs directly to second and keep accelerating all fine The juddering primarily occurs when either: - changing from first into second and you enter second with the revs at 1400 to 1700 and want to hold this rev range ie taking a corner/maneuvering - judder-judder - changing from 3rd into 2nd and still slowing to take a junction and again revs at around 1400- 1700 judder-judder I do a lot of driving on rough forestry tracks and again I get juddering when trying to maintain at 15mph (site speed limit) - again rev approx 1700, if I put it into first fine but revs realistically to high. so what I have to do now is select low box to traverse tracks at 15mph I seriously think it is purely down to bad mapping, if the fueling at this rev range was improved I'm sure the vehicle would be smoother. |
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11th Dec 2014 7:53pm |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558 
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Easy fix really , stick a 2.4 in it
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11th Dec 2014 9:50pm |
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| JustStarting Member Since: 02 Sep 2014 Location: Dorset Posts: 146  
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This is exactly why i am keen to get a resolution I know that i can learn to live with it and i know its not the end of the world but why should a Transit drive so much better than a Defender, it doesn't make sense?? Has anyone tried putting a Transit ECU in a Defender? or a Transit Map into a Defender?? I remember reading that the differences where to allow for the 4 Wheel Drive "drag / load" Diesel Yoga keep the posts going, i am looking forward to what you come up with I am looking to keep this Defender for many years and as such i am looking to solve all the issues and run it through finishing school to do all the work that Land Rover didn't do  MY2015 110 Urban Truck Expedition Spec
2005 Td5 TwinCab 1998 110 CSW 300tdi |
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11th Dec 2014 10:26pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610 
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No negativity......frustration and disappointment on behalf of an old Land Rover buff who struggled with his 2.2 and was not around to sample it's true potential....two years later there's still no solution...cut to the quick and sort out a solution if you're truly able this issue has been around far too long. GOOD LUCK WITH IT.... If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!! Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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11th Dec 2014 10:44pm |
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| DieselYoda Member Since: 09 Dec 2014 Location: Hunsruck Posts: 17 
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Hi,the negative does not deter me in the least.The fix has been running for the past year for validation in a everyday use 2.2L Defender.Like Martin mentioned in an earlier post there is a rule book and coming from our background you follow the rule book.The review will also include an emission re-test and engine tear-down as not only changes for drivability been made but also increase in torque and power curve.If all passes I will sign-off and release calibration and also be happy to let a couple people demo the release,Martin you are welcome to be one of them.
Now let me share something with you:When JLR or any other OEM needs to make changes to an already release product there is a process that must be followed,i will use the issue being discussed as an example. *Customer has concern complains to Dealer *Dealer can't fix,escalates to Technical support *Technical can't fix move to the top of their structure *Still not fixed,it gets placed on Currently Quality agenda for investigation. *If deemed not a one-off and affects all,then a program is set in place for a fix to be developed *Appropriate level test vehicles will then have to be sorted to represent all markets *Test plan is put together to capture all scenarios and presented to the higher achy for approval *Test plan approved,get on with your work *New calibration generated,this now has to be handed to the FIE supplier for a process call containerization (in this case Conti) *New calibration ready,it now has to be packaged and released to the wider world. In order to achieve the above mentioned to remedy your concern it would have cost JLR in the region of £250,000.00 - £300,000.00.The business case could not be made. Regards DieselYoda |
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12th Dec 2014 9:00am |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558
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why does the 2.2 drive so much different to the 2.4 ?
ive driven hundreds of 2.2 and 2.4 transits and would say there much the same both engines have 4 injectors , hp pump , basically same set up of cams , block ,head etc , same running gear , only real difference is dpf and emissions SO why has the map got to be so different that they cant even get to drive right ? the 2.2 engine has the same job to do as the 2.4 to get the defender from a to b that's it job done ! they say its gear change harmonization why does the 2.2 need this and not the 2.4 ? its running in the same vehicle nothing else has changed is there anyone on forum who cant get from a to b in there 2.4 ? don't think so , so why have the 2.2 run drive different ? I would say my 2.4 drives perfectly well and does what I want it to do for what it is , its a defender! and by that I don't mean it can drive bad just because its a defender , mine drives quiet , no knocks or clunks , it tows well ,comfortable,warm in winter,cool in summer , it goes well enough for me its 4x4 its never going to handle well but its good enough for the job it needs to do ( they just need to be put together better ) |
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12th Dec 2014 9:17am |
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| rover Member Since: 26 May 2012 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 146
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K9F
Sorry to hear you have lost a mate. |
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12th Dec 2014 10:31am |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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No worries and thank you Rover, it was some time ago. His eldest son has inherited the 2.2 and guess what? The rev hang is still a bain and an issue. Admittedly not really interested in 'the talk' as this has been done to death on numerous threads, a solution however is long overdue reading through those very threads. If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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12th Dec 2014 12:22pm |
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| DieselYoda Member Since: 09 Dec 2014 Location: Hunsruck Posts: 17
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munch90,
In reality because of the base engine design the 2.2L hAS the ability to climb the torque moch smoother than the 2.4L.The 2.4L also has gear change harmonization,as a matter of fact it was first done on 2.4L to reduce the problems with breaking DMF'S The problem is when the 2.4L was done there was a much greater input from Ford as per control strategy development using the DENSO system supported by Visteon.The 2.2L program using the Siemens(Conti) strategy did not have this luxury of Ford input and sharing of development due to politics.Hence the reason you don't notice a difference between the 2.2L and 2.4L in the Transit. That said,take nothing away from those who delivered the 2.2L Defender,they did it under difficult circumstances. Regards DieselYoda |
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12th Dec 2014 3:36pm |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558
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what injectors does the 2.2 use ?
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12th Dec 2014 4:14pm |
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| DieselYoda Member Since: 09 Dec 2014 Location: Hunsruck Posts: 17
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2.2L use Siemens(Conti)
Regards DieselYoda |
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12th Dec 2014 4:31pm |
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| rover Member Since: 26 May 2012 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 146
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Dieselyoda
Do you know when your recalibration/remap will be available. |
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14th Dec 2014 9:21am |
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| DieselYoda Member Since: 09 Dec 2014 Location: Hunsruck Posts: 17
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Rover:sorry for the late reply,been out testing.
We are currently putting the final touches on the 2.4L Re-Calibration packages including engine teardown,inspection and rebuild.I am hoping i can have all of the 2.4L work done by end of Feb-2015 after which i will focus on the 2.2L Re-Calibration release. Regards DieselYoda |
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17th Dec 2014 9:58am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17338 
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^^ Exciting developments, please keep us posted!
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17th Dec 2014 12:20pm |
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