 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Puma 2.2 judders/kangaroos 1st and 2nd |
 
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| redzob Member Since: 16 Jul 2014 Location: St. Peter Port Posts: 137   
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I'm on tenderhooks looking forward to knowing more
 Defender Puma 2.2 XS 90
Vespa GTS 300 Way too many racing bikes. |
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10th Dec 2014 1:00pm |
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| rover Member Since: 26 May 2012 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 146 
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Dieselyoda
My main problem is the one highlighted in this series of posts. If this can be sorted I will be a happy man. The gear change seems to be a problem with a lot of puma defenders but I suppose that is an entirely different problem and one I think I can live with. Good luck with your work and keep us informed on the solution. |
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10th Dec 2014 5:46pm |
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| JustStarting Member Since: 02 Sep 2014 Location: Dorset Posts: 146 
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DieselYoda you sound as though you may well have the answers to many of the concerns that 2.2 Owners and potential Owners have.
Can you shed some more light on the "pinking" / "ticking" sound that is heard under load / acceleration in the 2.2 A few posters have mentioned that it is the injectors being out of sync? The other issue that is widely discussed is the "Rev Hang" whilst changing gear. I am surprised that none of the Tuners are able to take this out of the Tune / Maps that they upload to the ECU's What is your understanding of these issues? On behalf of everyone, thank you for sharing your knowledge, i look forward to your posts. MY2015 110 Urban Truck Expedition Spec 2005 Td5 TwinCab 1998 110 CSW 300tdi |
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10th Dec 2014 9:42pm |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5699 
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Oi you rich kids with your 2.2's, wait your turn, we need to sort the 2.4's out first, you lot still got warranty.
Andy |
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10th Dec 2014 10:00pm |
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| JustStarting Member Since: 02 Sep 2014 Location: Dorset Posts: 146
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I am getting the questions in early
In all honesty i know its under warranty but as many people have said, apparently the stock answer from the dealers is "they all do that" It surprises me that the Tuners can't resolve the issue but then without criticising them i don't think the tuners actually make the maps and truly Tune the ECU's anymore I have spent silly money on Tuning in the past but the Tuners really did MAP the car to specific parameters and were able to adjust virtually every characteristic in the Car's ECU I appreciate that where tuning runs into the £000's then its worth their time and effort so perhaps its not viable for a relatively small Defender Market MY2015 110 Urban Truck Expedition Spec 2005 Td5 TwinCab 1998 110 CSW 300tdi |
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10th Dec 2014 10:49pm |
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| DieselYoda Member Since: 09 Dec 2014 Location: Hunsruck Posts: 17 
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Hello everyone,
The noise you are referring to is the pilot switching.This noise is always there but is more pronounced with engine under load or snap acceleration and can be quite harsh especially on an engine where the initial set-up for adaptive learning is not done properly.ie:pump learn,pilot learn...etc. It is also not helped by the fact that some of the points on the torque curve have been compromised by emission requirements.The only thing 2.2L needs is some time spent on optimizing the calibration,it was rushed and now it needs to be sorted. My 2.4L friend we have already done lots for 2.4L and can demonstrate how they should run and perform,but still i am always open to listen to concerns. There are concerns you will encounter with modern engine control systems that unless tuners have technical expertise and backgrounds similar to myself or access to the technical info and guidance to use it,the task for them would be near impossible. Regards DieselYoda |
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11th Dec 2014 9:41am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17378 
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Looking forward to hearing more!
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11th Dec 2014 12:29pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610 
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Me too. The 'rev hang' issue has featured prominently on this forum for a long time and still it continues. It has been 'worked on' by one of the well known tuners and it was stated that to get rid of the rev hang completely the driveability of the vehicle in other areas would be seriously compromised. Basically if you find it troublesome live with it or adjust driving style to suit.
Diesel Yoda please excuse my cynicism and this is not meant to offend but you have written many an interesting word in your few posts. You have dangled a proverbial carrot with scant extra detail. I would like to hear more too and see a little more clearly who exactly is doing the carrot dangling? Thank you. If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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11th Dec 2014 1:05pm |
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| DieselYoda Member Since: 09 Dec 2014 Location: Hunsruck Posts: 17
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The feature is gear change harmonization.It is designed to maintain a certain level of RPM and Torque during gear changes to give you a smoother transition of engine power during gear changes.The issue is,poor application of this feature could be something as complex as a poorly developed calibration to a badly adjusted or malfunctioning clutch switch.When told you must live with this or any other concern on the 2.2l,remember one thing:the base controlling strategy to run the 2.2L Puma in the Defender is basically the same running the Transit.What i say to you is drive a 2.2L Transit or speak to someone who has and then tell me if you should just live with it.
Now,as for who i am or what i do:Answer the trivia question and i will tell you "which Puma engine came first :2.0L,2.2L,2.4L or 3.2L Regards DieselYoda |
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11th Dec 2014 2:15pm |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6605 
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With respect, it is easy to mock LR (or whoever actually did the work) for the calibration or powertrain features that are on the vehicle.
Aftermarket mapping companies are not constrained to EU / World regulations regarding vehicle emissions, nor trying to produce a vehicle which has to meet any number of other targets. What you end up with is a compromise, which is supposed to be OK for as many as possible. The aftermarket can throw all of these out of the window, and produce a calibration tailored to an individual customer, with features turned off and with total disregard of the emissions regulations. I don't think what is being proposed is anything new: BAS, Alive and IRB have (I think, happy to be corrected) stated that they have calibrations which reduce/eliminate the rev hold. On my new 90 I don't find the rev hold an issue, in my mind it is clear why it is there. Now I'm not fighting it I don't even notice it, but it's taken a week or so to.  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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11th Dec 2014 3:19pm |
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| DieselYoda Member Since: 09 Dec 2014 Location: Hunsruck Posts: 17
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Martin,
I happen to know that rule book very well and I am not mocking LR,to mock LR will be to mock myself.You can't develop a calibration to suit one person needs or driving style and yes you have to sign-off for several different regions globally.This issue is an inbuilt characteristic of the drivability of this latest level of Defender.The reality is sometimes the pressure of delivering deadlines can leave us falling short of the ideal objective.I also agree that most tuners don't even know the rule book and are not held accountable to many laws.There are things which can be done inline with the regulations in aftermarket and some you can't.I am here to show the difference. I don't know about the others,but i can correct you on IRB as they are our development partners.The work is ongoing on the 2.2L calibration revision as we do follow the rule book and any work we do is retested. Regards DieselYoda |
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11th Dec 2014 3:48pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17378
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I have always believed that it was the ZSD-420 1998cc (2.0L) was the first in the MY2000 Mondeo, but I imagine from the fact that you're asking the question that the answer is not that simple! |
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11th Dec 2014 4:19pm |
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| rover Member Since: 26 May 2012 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 146
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I think I remember someone on this forum saying the 2.2 is the older than the 2.4 so my guess is that the 2.2 came first out of them all.
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11th Dec 2014 5:32pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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Nothing 'new' here! "Same old problem still being 'looked' into."
Get back when you've a solution then I'll tell you the answer to your trivia question. Be a good money spinner for anybody that does solve the issue completely. If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!! Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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11th Dec 2014 7:26pm |
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