 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Puma 2.2 gear change |
 
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| Gus Member Since: 10 Nov 2014 Location: Perth Posts: 17   
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Hi Folks,
I realise that there's been some discussions on the subject already (rev hang etc) but reading through the various posts they all seem to drift off onto other subjects, mostly led by 200tdi/300tdi die hards who like to double-declutch or time it to the nearest 50 rpm so that they do not need to use the clutch at all 
I'm just running in a new defender 90 and although I have 25 years driving experience and the majority of it spent in LR Series/Defender vehicles the gear change on the new Def is taking a good deal of getting used to. I've tried changing quick to changing slow and every iteration in between and although I'm slowly getting there it seems that you have to develop a different technique for each gear to avoid the well-documented CLONK 
My initial instinct based on previous Landies was to keep the revs up a little and let the clutch out slow to avoid a clunky drivetrain pick-up but this played merry hell with the fangled 'rev hang' feature so I quickly reverted to a more slow-but-steady no-gas technique with one eye on the rev counter to avoid most unwanted aural slants on my driving technique. However, I'm  if I can figure out how to change down without an embarrassing lurch/clonk combo unless I accelerate first. For example if I simply want to drop it into 6th from 5th having held a cruising speed for a while it seems unavoidable.
I'm used to Defenders requiring their owner to conform but I guess I was expecting the new 'box to be an improvement on the previous model. This is, of course, new owner paranoia and I know that the general consensus will be 'they all do that, adjust to suit' but if I wanted to hear that I'd just go speak to the dealer 
I was just wondering if anyone on the forum has actually nailed the required technique and is willing to go on record with their fool-proof solution? Last edited by Gus on 20th Nov 2014 2:46am. Edited 1 time in total |
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12th Nov 2014 5:54am |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3641  
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Gents I hope you sort out your issues I have a 2,4 so don't have rev hang, but lots on here do, I understand BAS remap can fix this and a bowler remap might not invalidate your warranty. Also any clunking may not be just rev hang related, mine clunked from new and I drove around it, having just had a dose of looking at and new clutch assembly by Guy Salmon the clunk is all but gone. Its always worth driving another new one to compare your issues. DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,
I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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12th Nov 2014 6:21am |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1579 
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I have 2.2 110. I seem to be pretty smooth with and while I've been driving around this morning been thinking how that is. One of my lot makes it clonk like hell on most changes.
Now I don't change slow or mega fast. The other lad tends to be harsh on the clutch pedal. Also he fully releases the accelator pedal. This is going to be very patronising and boring but this is how I do it. I tend to change between 2.3 and 2.8 revs. I don't fully release the accelator just keep about 5mm of pressure onit. I then fully press the clutch down, you need to ensure you have full travel using mats from older defender can cause limited pedal movement, this will cause a poor change. I then select then next gear and release the clutch. Then increase the revs, the other lad lets the revs drop too much and is then fighting the Rev hang not working with it. This is probably no help. |
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12th Nov 2014 10:16am |
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| Trundlebus Member Since: 15 Jul 2014 Location: Herts Posts: 99
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Being new to the joys of defender ownership, I struggled initially with a nice smooth clear change.. I have sort of found a method which works for me but it's not infallible as I still get the occasional clonking. I use the clutch as I do on a motorbike, very very slow and smooth release, not just letting it up but always feeding the clutch in with the power to help the driveline accommodate the change. It's second nature after a while. When I drive my wife's car it all goes to pot as I get terrible clutch slip. I still get the kangaroo bounce on occasions and just have to get the clutch out quick. Persevere and it will come right.
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12th Nov 2014 10:58am |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1579
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Yeah I'd agree with that, I find when getting into my wife's car you need to change technique again. Our van drives much the same as the LandRover does.
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12th Nov 2014 11:06am |
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| lonewolf Member Since: 23 Oct 2013 Location: North East England Posts: 210 
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I have a 2.4 and initially clonked between 1 thro 3 but have found that you can't rush the changes like in a normal car (used to a Swift Sport which loves a quick shift). Now my changes are usually clonk free but not always.
So I'd say take your time between shifts and don't let the clutch snatch up too quickly. Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey as they say (?)  .....good luck. |
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12th Nov 2014 1:03pm |
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| rover Member Since: 26 May 2012 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 146
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I have the same problem with my 2.2, you can mitigate some of the symptoms some of the time by carefull use of the clutch but my conclusion is that there is still a design problem. The gear box in my previous td5 and before that the 300tdi was great. Poor gear change and juddering /lurching in low gears is making me regret ever buying a 2.2 defender.
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12th Nov 2014 2:04pm |
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| bob neville Member Since: 30 Apr 2009 Location: Marbella Posts: 3248  
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I only had a problem with rev hang on my 2.2 was between 4th and 5th.
I am using the past tense because after my remap (which does not change the rev hang) I no longer have an issue - if anything the rev hang is greater between 4th and 5th. I put this down to the engine revving more freely and a different driving style, for that read more aggressive I am now changing gear later as there is far more power and I think if the rev hang was not there then the clonking from the drive train might be unbearable.
Bob 2015 Jaguar XE240 R Sport - goes like ....... !! 2013 Defender 90 CSW - sold 2009 Defender 110 Double Cab - sold 2001 TD5 90 CSW - offroad project - sold to a forum member 2011 Porsche Boxster - for the sunny days ! |
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12th Nov 2014 7:47pm |
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| Howard650 Member Since: 25 Aug 2014 Location: York Posts: 14 
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I had the same issue with mine. When I bought her she had 27000 on the clock and I immediately had the clunk and Kangaroo syndrome. A big part of my issue was that the rubber mats fitted were fouling the clutch, they proved to be old mats taken from another Defender and were fouling the clutch when depressed. I have since spoken to other Puma owners and they have told me that even the correct mats can foul the down travel on the clutch. Take your mat out if fitted and see if you get more travel, it may help.
As mentioned by RobKeay getting the revs up helps, I change at about 2.3. Between sorting out the Clutch travel and practice I find her really nice and smooth now and I am well happy! |
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12th Nov 2014 8:15pm |
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| adamatdraycott Member Since: 11 Nov 2013 Location: Midlands Posts: 299 
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I also find a fairly obvious clunk from 5th to 6th (again a 2014 2.2), however I'm taking her to the WRC Wales on Sunday so hoping I can come to a solution. I tend to change into 6th at around 45mph... Which sounds too low, however it appears to pull okay. What does everyone else change at?
1st is very short 2nd maybe upto 20mph 3rd upto 30mph 4th about 38mph 5th about 48mph 6th pulls like a train upto 70-75mph Being a relatively young owner, I find driving my defender quite a challenge. I welcome any thoughts. |
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12th Nov 2014 8:30pm |
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| Howard650 Member Since: 25 Aug 2014 Location: York Posts: 14
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With gear changes:-
1st as said short, sometimes I don't bother and set off in 2nd! 2nd take her up to 20mph 3rd up to 30 to 35 4th up to 40 to 45 5th take her up to 50 to 55 and then into 6th. |
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12th Nov 2014 8:37pm |
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| lukev01 Member Since: 24 Mar 2012 Location: Bedfordshire Posts: 412  
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With a 2.2 110 I find a quick but smooth change works best.
I generally put it in 6th at 40 mph since I am not usually racing up towards the limit, torque is fine from there up to 60+, unless I do need to get a shift on, in which case, I hold it in 4th to 50, then shift up to 5th, then 6th. I am more used to the crashbox on a S2A so unless I really get it wrong, the modern gearbox and aids seem to work pretty well to help me. 1970 Series 2A 88" |
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12th Nov 2014 8:39pm |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3784 
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You guys are changing a lot later than we do.
We have a 90, and there's only the two of us in it so no load, except when we're going away, when there's bags & stuff in the back. But, we're normally into 6th at around 60/65.."K"PH on a flat road. In the suburbs, where we have a 6o kph limit, if the road's clear & flat, we'd probably be in 6th, but if we're in traffic, then we'd be in 5th. Going through the gears from stop, We normally change up at around 2500rpm. Pickles. |
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12th Nov 2014 8:51pm |
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| adamatdraycott Member Since: 11 Nov 2013 Location: Midlands Posts: 299
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I tend to change at 2000rpm as a rule... But reading some responses I should be pushing a bit harder to get a smoother ride.
Consumption has never been an issue with mine and it averages about 28.5mpg, so never been too concerned that I'm making it labour, however passengers tend to give me weird looks when they can hear bangs from the transmission tunnel. |
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12th Nov 2014 9:02pm |
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