 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > 5-50 synthetic oil |
 
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| LESVOSD110 Member Since: 19 Aug 2009 Location: South Africa Posts: 241   
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What do you guys think about using a 5w-50 synthetic oil (Diesel/petrol specification) and changing it every 5000kms.I have been using the 5w-30 ford oil but thinking of using the above.I had heard stories that the ford 913b spec oil does not give good wear protection.May be just stories,I don't know. Puma 110 SW
90 V8 SOFT TOP |
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9th Jun 2010 5:45pm |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586 
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better to use a ACEA A5/B5 oil like Mobil1 ESP or the Motul equivalent Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition
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9th Jun 2010 6:23pm |
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| bpman Member Since: 21 May 2008 Location: Oslo Posts: 8069 
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I used fully synthetic castrol 0w30 in my td5, I'm going to use 0w40 in my puma when it needs it's next service
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/productdeta...Id=7027069 Last edited by bpman on 10th Jun 2010 6:32pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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9th Jun 2010 6:27pm |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586
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The oil used by puma is Low HTHS. that mean ACEA A1/B1 or, better ACEA A5/B5
Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition
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9th Jun 2010 6:52pm |
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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Región Metropolitana Posts: 2110  
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Dgardel,
Be carefully with the text provided. "Therefore, in future some ACEA A5/B5-08 engine oils may also meet the requirements of Ford WSS-M2C913-C" That means that only some oils under this clasification will fullfill the C specs (not A or B) In my opinion allways stick with the specs, a WSS-M2C913-A or B to be sure, in special if you are still under guarantee. Cheers Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo" Click image to enlarge |
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9th Jun 2010 11:36pm |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586
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EDO
I spent half time of my (professional) life like engine designer and developer (Ferrari, Aprilia, Ducati, Cosworth and Ricardo) and I'M SURE THAT ACEA A5/B5 (low HTHS oils) are good for TDCi. BUT............. I'm sure that a middle HTHS oil are better.............. but it is a loooooong story............. Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition
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9th Jun 2010 11:42pm |
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| LESVOSD110 Member Since: 19 Aug 2009 Location: South Africa Posts: 241
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Thanks guys.
I know that Ford wants the 913B oil especially for fuel economy and not all A5/B5 oils meet the requirements.You can have 3 different A5/B5 spec oils and they will meet different manufacturer requirements. I'm trying to find out if a HIGH HTHS oil can be used and changed sooner.I feel that just because Ford wants the tdci specific oil,does not meen it best for the engine.Our diesel has been changed over the years for polution but it not the best for our engines even though advertising says it is. I have read that low HTHS OILS provides poor protection for camshafts and other head components. dgardel,What do you know about high HTHS oils? Puma 110 SW 90 V8 SOFT TOP |
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10th Jun 2010 2:03am |
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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Región Metropolitana Posts: 2110
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Dgardel 
I'm also in the area but with heavy machines and probably your experience is more reliable than my. Just I like to point that from a legal view, if you put other oil than the specified, for sure you will lost your guarantee in any court trial if something happens in the motor. By the way, have anyone the WSS specifications? Cheers! Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo" Click image to enlarge |
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10th Jun 2010 12:25pm |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586
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If I do not remember wrong I have the PDF on my home computer, this evening (now is 14:45 in italy) I'll check... Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition
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10th Jun 2010 12:48pm |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586
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better low wear than 1-2% mpg less DOWN LOAD and READ THIS about low HTHS
In the past we use the MoS2 on Aprilia SBK engine. The MoS2 have the problem that i falls if you do not use the engine for 12 or more hours. Liqui Moly have same additives for limit this problem.... I prefer ceramic additives like CPL tested on F1, SBK, PaDak.... And it is "for live" (150000km) Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition
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10th Jun 2010 12:53pm |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586
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Edo, I'm not able to look for the document that I want.....
but here same oil spec information documents http://files.me.com/daniele.gardellin/4hp8if http://files.me.com/daniele.gardellin/zsb3gg All ford specification (may be not actual) http://files.me.com/daniele.gardellin/2aisp0 Remember An oil with a higher HTHS viscosity will tend to have lower wear due to increased film strength, but this typically is at the expense of fuel economy, which is why most modern oils used by auto manufacturers are purpose made to increase fuel economy. That's why you find max limits for HTHS in these lighter viscosities. Using a fully synthetic oil will help reduce wear when dealing with lower viscosities. About the use of Moly: Although a manufacturer may specify a particular grade, like 5w20, the owner's manual sometimes says that a 5w30 or other alternative oil is acceptable. In fact, I have spoken to many owners who use a 0w30, 0w40, or 5w40 in their engines, even though a 5w20 is specified, with the real downside only being reduced fuel economy. The use of a 5w20 is more than likely one to meet CAFE fuel economy requirements but nonetheless, you should never go away from manufacturer recommendations, especially under warranty. Machinery Lubrication has an excellent article on motor oils - fuel economy versus wear that is worth reading. But for most users, using the factory recommended viscosities and oils meeting manufacturer specifications as well as sticking to fully-synthetic oils will be satisfactory for these engines, as they were designed for oils with lower viscosities and reduced anti-wear additives. Also, some engines, like Porsche engines equipped with Variocam, are sensitive to viscosity changes and will cause a CEL if the wrong viscosity is used, so be aware of this when choosing to deviate from manufacturer recommended viscosities. So great care needs to be used when using thicker viscosities of motor oils to determine if higher operating temperatures or increased ambient air temperatures justify these changes. Is there moly in my motor oil? Is moly bad for my engine? From our testing, most SM oils have some level of boron and moly to make up for the lower level of Zn and P and is now more commonly found in SM oils and the new CJ-4 oils. In the development of long-life motor oils with reduced Zn and P, organic soluble moly has been added to help neutralize oxides formed in the motor oil from byproducts of combustion in addition to its use as a friction modifier to improve fuel economy and reduce engine wear in GF-4 and energy conserving oils. Some brands of oils have more moly than others, with Redline and Royal Purple using significantly high levels of moly in their lubricants. Some oil manufacturers claim that the addition of moly can reduce friction up to 38%, reduce bearing wear up to 60% and reduce overall operating temperatures. On the flip side, some advertise their product does not have moly intentionally, claiming moly is an abrasive and deposit forming, which are both true in as much as ZDDP, although forming good anti-wear films, it increases friction and the oil's traction coefficient. CMW Oil is one of the most vocal proponents of the elimination of moly all together from motor oils and does not use any moly friction modifiers in its street, race, or fleet lubricants. CMW is not alone in their recommendation against the use of moly in oils, with Cummins Engine Oil Recommendations, Bulletin No. 3810340-02, stating that "there is firm evidence that certain friction modifiers, molybdenum dithiophosphate for example, can in certain formulations result in cam follower pin failure at relatively low mileage." Also, molybdenum compounds in motor oils can degrade and cause bearing corrosion and is particularly aggressive towards copper. In almost all cases, any engine oil formula having "moly" will also contain a copper deactivator which will protect bearings from the moly compounds. The only problem, the copper deactivator decomposes at relatively low temperatures and looses it's potency after a few thousand miles, which can be seen in used oil analyses of moly rich oils having higher than normal copper levels. LINK Additionally, there is documentation in various SAE publications showing a vast number of different species of moly friction modifiers, some providing better wear than fuel savings and vice-versa, and unfortunately, there is no easy way to determine how a friction modified oil is formulated other than to assume that a GF-4 or energy conserving oil is most likely to bias fuel savings for lower wear protection in thinner oils, like the aforementioned 5w20 viscosity so many import and domestic engines now require to meet CAFE requirements Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition
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10th Jun 2010 8:23pm |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586
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Here an interesting document Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition
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10th Jun 2010 8:43pm |
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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5035  
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Or just buy the recommended oil - stick it in a use it?
  it seems to work fine Mike |
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10th Jun 2010 11:04pm |
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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Región Metropolitana Posts: 2110
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Thanks Dgardel for the info!!
If you found it in the future, please post it Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo" Click image to enlarge |
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10th Jun 2010 11:08pm |
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