 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Air intake temperature |
 
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816   
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The tech gents (and ladies) on here probably can answer best, so I hereby happily give them the floor, but is this not something which would be dramatically improved by installing just a bigger upgraded intercooler, the likes of those offered by Alive, BAS, even Entreq, and others?
I personally am not looking for any extra power from my 2.4, power is fine as it is, but two things I am interested in to do once the truck comes out of its extended warranty now in September is installing the stainless steel intercooler pipes, hopefully from Entreq, which would avoid a repeat of a split intercooler hose I once had, and also installing such upgraded and larger intercooler to get intake air lower in temp which by itself should come to the benefit of better combustion.... Both these things I consider to fall within the common denominators of "optimization of operating reliability and efficiency"... Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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11th Jun 2014 1:20pm |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731  
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I looked at this a year or two ago when I was losing power when the outside temperature was above 30 Celsius (40+ Celcius intake). I had a RAI on which seemed to make the problem worse. I even rigged the air filter box to take air from the engine compartment to compare - the speed the intake temperature changed was incredible between cruising, under load and standing still.
As Eric says, bigger intercooler is the way to go - our Aussie and SA friends find exactly the same thing. I have just fitted one and it has made a huge difference the last few days - over 35 degrees in Bavaria  and no problems.
I never thought to heatshield the pipework - it's an interesting idea, although mine being LHD with aircon there doesn't seem enough room to stuff it  Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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11th Jun 2014 1:44pm |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816
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I think you already posted some details, but which intercooler did you install? Was it easy to do, plug 'n play, or did you have to squeeze all kind of things? Would be interested to hear your view as we both have the similar configurated Defenders, i.e. LHD Puma 2.4 with airco....
I am tempted to take a look at Entreq's intercooler, but definitely I have not made my mind up at all, so open to first class alternatives... Target use as you can imagine with me is 100% on road driving... Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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11th Jun 2014 2:01pm |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731
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Plug and play
Pete Bell supplied me with the new Alisport intercooler that he redesigned with them. He said it has an improved core over the run-of-the-mill ChipTech/Entreq/Nakatanenga etc. ones. I trust him. Fits like a glove and is full width even with aircon. Took me about 3 hours to fit (including refitting the bonnet I dropped...). Only thing you need is 4 M8x30mm bolts to replace the studs (forget using grips - remove them using the 2 nut technique) and a small hacksaw blade to trim a bit of useless plastic off the radiator on the left (facing the vehicle). I ordered the silikon pipes which are a bit stiffer and thicker to fit (for these you need to prize some little metal hooks off the jubilee clips). Hardly any "bending" - it really is ridiculously easy to fit 
*Edit* How hot is Vv at the moment? *Double-Edit* Woohoo - my turbo just arrived 
*Triple-Edit* Forgot to mention Pete's prices including European postage are very competitive with Nakatanenga etc. Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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11th Jun 2014 3:01pm |
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| zone30 Member Since: 07 Sep 2012 Location: Gent Posts: 669  
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I think some heat insulation could drop the intake temp with 10 degrees, closer to ambient temp. I just don't know if it has any effect on the temp after the turbo.
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11th Jun 2014 8:32pm |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816
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Doubt that. The air flows at such a fast speed thru the intake piping to the airfilter and turbo that I don't think there is much, if any, effect on its ambient intake temp prior to being compressed by the turbo where it goes from ambient to much higher temps. Bigger intercooler seems the best bet to cool it down more again, certainly when it is hot outside.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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12th Jun 2014 3:45am |
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| zone30 Member Since: 07 Sep 2012 Location: Gent Posts: 669
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But the ultragauge tells me that after a short stop or idle it's +10 degrees above ambient. And takes a while for it to come down again. I did have a feel yesterday after a short drive and the channel between the intake and filter box does become quite warm. I think the temperature I get read out coles from the Air Mass Flow sensor, right after the filter box. So it's hotter then ambient air that goes go rhe turbo.
I think I'm going to search for some insulation. Shouldn't cost that much and it can't hurt trying. But first I need to find out if there's a way to check it's effect as, like I said before, I don't feel the car struggling or anything when it happens, just the alarm of the ultragauge goes off when the intake temp breaks 45 Celcius. PS I've seen it hitting 47 degrees as well which was close to +20 degrees above ambient. |
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12th Jun 2014 5:01am |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816
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I think the most educated advise about this and not speculate further would come from gurus like Pete Bell (BAS) and so....
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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12th Jun 2014 6:31am |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610  
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Are you sure the indicated temperature rise is being caused by radiated heat from the engine and not lack of airflow?
Mine does exactly the same and I already have a larger intercooler and stainless steel interconnecting pipes. The instant more demand is placed on the engine or you move from being stationary the temperature drops quickly and efficiently. Lagging or insulating I think will have no effect. With the larger intercooler the temperature swing is reduced and is only about 6-8 degrees in UK Summer temperatures. The engine running temperatures with a larger intercooler and other mods I have are reduced by about 10 degrees over standard I found. From an intercooler fit thread....... If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!! Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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12th Jun 2014 8:10am |
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| zone30 Member Since: 07 Sep 2012 Location: Gent Posts: 669
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Yes I'm sure because the temp RISES when idle.
This morning: drove 20 minutes to petrol station, temp was 12 degrees. At petrol station it was 13, turned engine off. Filled tank, turned engine on and it gave 18 degrees. Drove for a while and after 5 minutes I got it to 15 degrees. Trafic jam increased it to 23 degrees, fluid driving brought it back to 18. City driving ranged it between 23 and 19 (never got it below 19 again). Ambient temp this morning was 12, and it was probably not more then 15-16 when I arrived. So I'm quite sure it's the engine's radiation heat causing this. |
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12th Jun 2014 9:44am |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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When driving and not idling my intake air temperature is an accurate reflection of ambient temperature until I stop or idle. In town it is a few degrees above. Are you sure you're not reading too much into what you're seeing and fretting about nothing? Sounds like you've a dose of 'Caterhamitis' perhaps? If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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12th Jun 2014 1:00pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2638  
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Yep, and let's not forget: - the air intake is right by the front wheel, so all the heat from the tyre/brake is also heating the air being ingested by the intake. - air intake is not leak proof, thus hot air around the engine bay is probably also finding its way into the intake hose/pipe -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged 
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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12th Jun 2014 2:44pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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Forgot but perhaps worthy of mention I have a Safari Snorkel fitted. If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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12th Jun 2014 3:32pm |
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| zone30 Member Since: 07 Sep 2012 Location: Gent Posts: 669
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I have a snorkel as well, so it's not pulling in air from the engine bay nor brakes.
Just came home. Tem was at 28. Turned of engine, turned on ultragauge. 2 minutes passed and it's at 40 already and the alarm goes off. And rising. Parked in the shade. Click image to enlarge |
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12th Jun 2014 5:21pm |
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