 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > ABS disabled in low range or not |
 
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2634   
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On a Puma? It's always in 4wd
Not sure about low range, but since TC works in low range, I am assuming ABS is also working. -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged 
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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19th May 2014 9:50am |
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| PAT303 Member Since: 25 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Posts: 125  
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Naks,go back to AULRO,I'm trying to find out about stopping on hills. Pat
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19th May 2014 9:55am |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2634
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LOL.
Tell you what, after work, I will put mine in low range, and try to see if the ABS kicks in. We have a fairly empty office park, so getting up to 40kmh+ in low range won't be an issue. -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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19th May 2014 9:59am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018  
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I think the answer is no to both questions; however, the wheel speed sensors installed in each wheel hub to provide the ABS module with a rotational speed signal are only monitored at speeds of 8 kph (5 mph) and above. So in theory you could creep the nose over a steep slippy decline, wait for gravity to take over and with your foot fully on the brakes, slide down with no ABS.* *Not tried this in practice so if anyone has , happy to hear their experiences. |
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19th May 2014 10:59am |
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| PAT303 Member Since: 25 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Posts: 125
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We have a thread running in AULRO were an owner has had trouble with climbing up steep tracks and when stopped with both the clutch and brake peddles depressed the vehicle rolls backwards with the ABS not letting the brakes lock up stopping the vehicle. Pat
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19th May 2014 12:33pm |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443  
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↑↑↑ Been there done that.....instant passenger
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19th May 2014 1:09pm |
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| fatman Member Since: 14 Jan 2014 Location: Athens-Greece Posts: 126  
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Ah,i read it this morning on AULRO.. What makes him thing that with the brakes-wheels locked up the defender would eventualy stop...the only way is to engage a gear, not touch the pedals and let it roll itself,at least this way he 'll have some control of the movement. It needs some practice to overcome the fear,like HDC feature on other Landies,my disco 2 has scared the sh.t out of me when i first used this button.. Cheers. |
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19th May 2014 1:49pm |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443
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The issue with the abs is that when you've reached the point of a failed hill climb and you footbrake and clutch together you find the clutch pedal goes in but the t/c is still overriding the brakes and the pedal is solid and has "locked" you out. When the brain has registered this you have all ready taken it out of a forward gear and with no anti-gravity you are heading off much faster than the gearbox will allow you to select reverse. You can say that you should put the handbrake on, how? You're busy trying to get the gearlever into reverse while all the time your right leg is trying to get the brake pedal to communicate.
I defy anyone to do anything bar be an unwilling passenger. No it doesn't happen every time but when it does there's not a lot you can do but steer to keep out of danger. |
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19th May 2014 3:28pm |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443
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I know some will say stall the motor on the climb, not allways that practical on a loose surface where all the wheels are unable to find grip, the anti-stall sometimes has its disadvantages.
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19th May 2014 3:31pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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JWL - that's what I was thinking - don't use the clutch pedal and let it stall, but I've not been in that position with an anti-stall vehicle. Are you saying it's that much harder to overcome the anti-stall?
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19th May 2014 3:41pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2634
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The Puma has anti-stall, but if you stomp on the brakes it will stall - I do it often when off-road.
As promised, I put the landy into low-range, got it up to 45kmh and then stomped on the brakes - ABS did kick in. But that was without CDL on, so not sure if CDL on makes a difference -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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19th May 2014 4:58pm |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443
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It's all very well you saying that you stand on the brake pedal but the whole point of the problem is that sometimes with the t/c working flat out it locks you as a pilot out, the pedal is solid. So what are you going to do with wheels scrabbling away on a loose surface with an increasing danger that your direction may suddenly change. You have no option but to stall unless you switch off at the key, that would be quite a feat of level headidness.
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19th May 2014 6:03pm |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436  
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Good info as this issue comes up often on fora and many times i see it ignored or reduced to driver skill.
We are working on clay based soil vineyards on hills. 10 min of rain change the area from ok on road biased AT's to just doable on simex type tires. This issue is very common on our TC equipped defenders and therefore the last 2 were ordered without the ABS/TC option. The only alternative without sacrificing traction while having the benefit of ABS/TC on road to my experience is the combination of ATB diffs and the in line fused switch to disable the ABS/TC eg when tackling slippery hills. (TC kicks in 90% less with the ATB's anyway, to my experience) Seen and experienced too many passenger moments to be ignorant. Also on descents the ATB's are equalizing the brake force, if any differences between braking force, and i experienced more controlled semi-slides and much better reaction than with only ABS. (my way of looking at it is preventive(atb) against corrective (abs/TC)) While ABS might be a better solution in 90% of cases some surfaces need the tires to block and bite to get some friction/braking; snow being one of them but also on our clay i have seen it over and over again that without ABS the cars stop better. This of course is all relative when speeds are higher as on tarmac where abs and TC will react faster than a driver can. Hence why i personally never would buy a defender without ABS/TC unless it never goes on-tarmac.  |
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19th May 2014 9:41pm |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443
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I know that mine being a Td5 is an older system of t/c but there are times I'm really impressed with the system.I must get round to putting a disabling switch so I can decide and turn it off when conditions dictate. There are not many times that the brake lock out has occoured but when it does it is a little offputting and after experiencing the shortfall it can be predicted so avoided or another approach taken.
For most people they will not find themselves in such a position but I do like to use my motor, I've never had the problem occour when greenlaning as if you're in such a situation when it can occour then you shouldn't be there as you are more than likely doing damage to the lane. The times it has occoured have been on pay and play sites when I've been pushing the Defender and myself to find our limits, to understand and hone my driving skills. |
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19th May 2014 10:25pm |
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