 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > Replacement for defender - a little bit more news |
 
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| Tiger Member Since: 06 Jul 2012 Location: Wales Posts: 2265  
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Right gonna stick me neck out here.
Defender needs to move on, it's c@p. It's horribly unsafe, it leaks, it's noisy, it uncomfortable, etc. But it is Iconic Saying that, Mini didn't lose it's heritage when they made the new one, if anything they took everything that was great about Minis, style, handling and made the brand better and produced a better product. (quite cleverly they chose to ignore the small 'Mini' bit which was bold but brilliant) Jag hasn't lost it's heritage because it stopped making the E-Type Aston the DB5 etc, etc, Whatever they do they will still be the brand that has all of those great iconic photos attached to their products. Would be nice to see another working vehicle though, something that Farmers and NationalGrid would buy. |
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13th Mar 2014 10:33am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17372  
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In many ways a vehicle like the current Defender would now fit better into a specialist low volume manufacturer, something along the lines of Supacat (makers of the MWMIK), rather than a high volume prestige SUV manufacturer like Landrover.
It's a depressing situation really, but the mass markets have evolved beyond recognition, the motor industry has changed beyond recognition, and the Defender and to an extent we Defender enthusiasts are the anachronism. I reckon we need a zombie apocolypse urgently so that we come into our element and our vehicles become relevent again! No place for electronics on vehicles post-ZA! |
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13th Mar 2014 10:36am |
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| Buzz Member Since: 11 Oct 2011 Location: Inverness Posts: 235 
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Defender just needs to become relevant again. It needs to fulfil the original design brief but with a 2014 spin.
Cheap to make, market price point to buy, inexpensive to repair if you  a panel on a fence post, good load bed. Go anywhere etc. Adaptable.
I have run several Defenders for work, and while my colleagues mock me, the Defender has proved itself over and over again. When you can buy a Ford Ranger that doesn't leak, drives well, is cheap to service etc. its a no brainer and thats what the fleet operators look for. National Grid etc. only have small fleets of Defenders now, and they hang onto them for well past 100k because of the cost to buy. Go and spec. a 130 with all the toys for work, the cost is monumental. From a business perspective Defender makes little sense to JLR. I for one can't wait to see what the next evolution brings. Get it right and JLR could take over the double cab market in one foul sweep. |
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13th Mar 2014 10:54am |
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| pjb Member Since: 08 Apr 2009 Location: Sunny Oxford Posts: 1244 |
You have to remember that Tata make basic 4x4 vehicles for their home market, I'm not sure that they are ever going to spend any money developing the Defender as its not cost effective, they see the brand as up market & defender down market despite the fact that Land Rover & its off shoots range rover etc would be nothing without the land rover heritage something I think the marketing men forget at times, the brand will be if not already like any other high end 4x4 just a car in a flash 4x4 frock - aka X5/All Road/XC90 etc
Nothing wrong with any of them but not a Land Rover  2020 P300 HSE |
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13th Mar 2014 11:16am |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3149 
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When you can buy a Ford Ranger that doesn't leak, drives well, is cheap to service etc. its a no brainer and thats what the fleet operators look for.
This WAS true until quite recently, when a number of fleet buyers have switched back to Defenders. I wonder why...  2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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13th Mar 2014 11:17am |
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| Lou Sparts Member Since: 15 Apr 2012 Location: Kent Posts: 1501 
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Ford Ranger is,nt cheap to service, at work recently we had to buy a propshaft UJ for one no pattern part available so main dealer only £140 !!!!!! compare that to a Defender one. 2005 Td5 90 XS
Steve |
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13th Mar 2014 11:27am |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Service prices aside, Buzz is right. And I go back to what I said; my Shogun could do all that I wanted to do in my Defender (didn't go in extreme mud), but it did it in complete comfort. Let's be honest here, the Defender should have been replaced at least a decade, or even two, ago! I love it, but it's time has passed...and we should embrace a new king. When that new Defender arrives, I will buy it - and I'll still keep my 1998 model.
NT5224, the small SUV market is about to explode. All the major manufacturers have models planned. It's going to be a huge market, and highly profitable. And not one of them will have rivets  Now left. |
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13th Mar 2014 1:14pm |
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| Limey Member Since: 18 Oct 2013 Location: Northern Italy Posts: 193 
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Well, I have to say that it's very nice to 'meet' all of you guys, as a new member I now feel a bit more involved!
I would love a modern Defender too, one that still had a lineage to the current and older models, one that could still take anything you can throw at it, but still wasn't too 'pretty boy' and could hopefully even handle running over zombies. Like Buzz said, they've just got to get it right. Maybe the new Contender, I mean Defender can have rivet stickers... Here's a final batch of piccies for you Pickles, 
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13th Mar 2014 1:26pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Rivet stickers, you say! I'm listening. Sort of like this...
 Now left. |
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13th Mar 2014 1:53pm |
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| mikelike Member Since: 31 Aug 2011 Location: new zealand Posts: 108 |
I agree the Defender needs an upgrade and has done for twenty years in areas.But what the Defender in current state does is make every trip feel like you are going on a safari and an adventure . Its a traditional four wheel drive with short over hangs and the best over bonnet visibility in the business !!! Nothing compares as all the Hi luxes.Rangers,Land criusers have car like driving positions over looking a long bonnet. And what is wrong with shape and look of the defender?? Gerry PLEASE keep a Defender silhouette , I just dont under stand the DC100 , more like a replacement for a Suzuki/Daihatsu product .
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13th Mar 2014 7:43pm |
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| Setok Member Since: 16 Jan 2009 Location: Helsinki Posts: 422 
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I believe that on several accounts you are actually mistaken. I'd be bold enough to say that most of the non-Defender Land Rover owners I have met are actually quite aware of the Defender (despite Land Rover's best efforts), and really love it. It's part of the heritage and the story. They know they don't have the real thing, and wouldn't be comfortable owning one, but they still feel part of that story. That's what halo products are all about. You are correct in that it is not a flagship product to JLR, but I think what we're saying is it should be, just as the Wrangler is for Jeep, and the 911 is for Porsche. True embodiments of what those companies stand for, even while not being their most popular models. It seems everyone else on the market has figured out how important heritage and an iconic status can be (think also MINI, Volkswagen Beetle, Fiat 500, Ford Mustang, even Lamborghini). That Land Rover has not, is simply incredible. And just to clear any doubts: that doesn't mean the product stands still. In fact quite the opposite. Oh, and I totally agree with mikelike: I love the short overhangs and the view over the bonnet, where you can actually see the corners (unlike just about anything else out there). It's one of the reasons manoeuvring most other 4x4s through forest terrain is more tricky. |
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13th Mar 2014 8:42pm |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3784  
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G'Day Setok, they may be "aware" of it, but they sure ain't buying it.
Defender is what it is, I LOVE ours, but it's "yesterday's vehicle", it's not going to be updated, and with only 16000 sales worldwide, there's no way known, that it will ever be a "Flagship" vehicle. Porsche are selling ever increasing numbers of a large variety of 911s, & the Wrangler is enjoying massive success for different reasons. The other vehicles (Beetle, Mini etc) you mentioned, are not "halo" products any more ,...they are all good, well engineered vehicles for sure, but they are all light years away from their original concept, whereas the Defender simply isn't...it perhaps should have been the subject of a more gradual improvement/modification process starting many years ago, but it wasn't, & so it now finds itself severely outdated, and in the position where it simply can't be updated,...and that is why a "New" Defender is coming, just like the "New" Beetle, Mini, etc etc. Maybe the "New" Defender may become the new "halo" vehicle? Regards, Pickles. |
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13th Mar 2014 9:28pm |
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| Setok Member Since: 16 Jan 2009 Location: Helsinki Posts: 422
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Defender doesn't need updated and evolved, but there are also very clear reasons why, in its current form, it doesn't sell more. It has lost to a market it should be dominating, and that doesn't mean it has to become a new footballer car (that would still not be regaining market position). Even today there is a lot of love for it, but people go elsewhere due to reliability factors or simply for the fact it's not sold in their market. The Defender is a halo product because even now, in the minds of many, it is *the* definitive offroad vehicle. Hell, even the hugely popular Waze navigation app has, as an SUV icon, a car that is clearly a Defender. It quite literally is iconic.
I mentioned those vehicles as good examples of how heritage is important for a brand, when utilised. From everything we have heard, Land Rover is getting rid of that heritage, and forgetting why the Defender has the charm that it does, and why it was so successful for many decades. It's why the 911 is still rear-engineered, even if that makes no sense whatsoever. I just don't see any Defender replacement becoming a similar iconic halo vehicle if it does not stay true to its roots, and becomes a 'premium' fashion item. That's makeup without the soul, which is so important in this case. |
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13th Mar 2014 9:44pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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People, WE love the Defender for what it is. The trouble is that WE are very few. Everything is about money, and JLR needs to make money on the world stage. Like it or not, the new Defender HAS to be a more 'smooth' vehicle, a more girly one, if you like. If the Evoque was more butch then it wouldn't be selling so well. The DC100 was/is how it will probably go. Now left.
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13th Mar 2014 10:07pm |
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