↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home > Puma (Tdci) > fuel breather pipe
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 3 of 14 <123 4 ... 121314>
Print this entire topic · 
lrmaniac



Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Lisboa
Posts: 762

Portugal 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Keswick Green
ericvv wrote:
The actual replacing was no big deal for the dealer, they just had to loosen two supports/brackets holding up the fuel tank and lower this one so that they created proper access space to undo and redo the lower end of this pipe. The old one after taking off, indeed showed numerous cracks and even a real 3 to 4 cm long split at the bottom end too.


Replaced mine last week... Not an easy job for the common DYI....no pics! sorry! Embarassed

But done as ericvv described! But my 110 is 3 1/2 years old and was a lot worse! Regards
Joao

'10 Land Rover Defender 110 CC
'08 BMW F800GS
'64 SIIA Forward Control
'69 SIIA 109 ZA CKD
_____________________________________________
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Post #272769 10th Oct 2013 4:12pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17323

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
After 4 weeks, 6 tanks-full of fuel, and about 2k miles since my post on the previous page I can confirm that rerouting the tank filling vent pipe through the larger aperture doesn't affect filling behaviour at all.
Post #272825 10th Oct 2013 9:43pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
skoller



Member Since: 27 Oct 2011
Location: australia
Posts: 7

Just discovered that my Pumas hose is also badly cracking at both ends. I will replaced it with quality hose if I can remove the tank end clip. It looks like a hard job to get at it and remove but I will persist at it. What are peoples thoughts on reattaching the smaller breather T connection on the outside of the chassis somewhere, instead of the inside, so its a bit easier to get to later if need be.
Post #272854 11th Oct 2013 7:12am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
Fuel tank vacuum
ericvv wrote:
As posted before after reading the OP by Joao, I checked my own fuel breather pipe on my almost 5 year old SVX, and yes, a lot of cracking at the top end on mine too, but no leaks yet. Yesterday my dealer during a scheduled service replaced the cracked pipe on my request as preventive maintenance. As per my earlier post in this thread, remember that my dealer confirmed that still two weeks ago they had to replace this same pipe on another Defender, but that one had developed a bad fuel leak at the bottom end where it is connected to the fuel tank. The actual replacing was no big deal for the dealer, they just had to loosen two supports/brackets holding up the fuel tank and lower this one so that they created proper access space to undo and redo the lower end of this pipe. The old one after taking off, indeed showed numerous cracks and even a real 3 to 4 cm long split at the bottom end too. The split was not to the point of leaking yet, but that was clearly a problem in the making... I cannot easily take a picture of the cracks on the old pipe, as after it has been removed there is no pressure on the ends anymore, so the cracks and the split have closed up again, but they are a fact.
The new pipe freshly installed is cracks free on the top, cannot see the bottom end, but presume the same. Hopefully it is good for another 4/5 years before next replacement. Thumbs Up
My recommendation would be that you check the top end of the pipe, and if serious cracks are there, fair chance that same will exist at bottom end too.....
For those who are interested in taking the same preventive action here are a few pictures of the correct part number, of the old pipe which was taken off and which I asked to leave with me so that I could show it here, and of the new top collar installed showing no cracks.
Eric

LR part number

Click image to enlarge


Old pipe removed

Click image to enlarge


New pipe installed, top collar

Click image to enlarge


Now, the new breather pipe is in place a few months, and the truck has run perfect as usual.
But last week when taking off the fuel cap at the filling station, I heard air wooshing in, so seems there is some vacuum being created in the tank as fuel is consumed.
Today, about 100km after last fill up, I unscrewed the fuel cap again and same air wooshing sound.
As said the truck runs perfect, no signs of fuel starvation or other.....
So questions.
**Is this air wooshing in noise normal? (Don't think so, as cannot remember it did this before)
**If not normal, is it certain that the fuel tank breather pipe is the culprit?
**Or could it be something else, like for instance a blocked breather function of the fuel cap itself? (If the fuel cap has such function).
If it is not normal, and if it would be the breather pipe being blocked, I will complain next week to my dealer who did the installation of the new breather pipe, and have them check it.
Once again, sofar it has not affected the smooth running of the engine.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #288938 9th Dec 2013 6:47pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17323

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Definitely not right. In normal operation as fuel is sucked from the tank air is admitted through a small breather pipe. On early vehicles like mine this was a separate pipe routed (cleverly) into the NSR wheelarch where it ingested crud; on later models (like yours) it was teed into the filler breather and terminates in some dirty wet place above the tank, where it ingests crud.

In the event that this breather becomes blocked, there is a two-way safety valve incorporated into the filler cap which will open if the tank's internal pressure differs by more than a few psi from the outside pressure. The purpose of this is to prevent the tank from collapsing or bursting if the breather is blocked.

From your description your atmospheric breather (small pipe) is blocked so the tank is running in a depressurised condition, the pressure difference being limited by the safety valve in the cap.

This is bad for two reasons. Firstly the LP fuel pump will be working harder to draw the fuel to the engine, and secondly any dirt, wetness, and other grot can be drawn through the lock barrel in the cap into the tank.

My recent fuel problems (as reported in other threads) have made me hyper-aware of the vulnerabilities of the system. I would strongly recommend fixing this ASAP, and also extending the small breather pipe to somewhere you can guarantee is clean and dry, eg inside the rear tub.
Post #288960 9th Dec 2013 7:56pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
Post #288966 9th Dec 2013 8:25pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
Here is the verdict. The new installed fuel breather pipe indeed was blocked. One of the head mechanics at my dealer whom I know quite well admitted today that these fuel breather pipes come from Land Rover with excess length.
Instead of cutting it down some to the required length, the mechanic had installed the pipe as is, and tucked it in place bending the pipe very sharply to the point that no air could pass anymore.
That has all been corrected now apparently. Hope this info is of interest to others who may be replacing the fuel tank breather pipe. Will now check if all is ok and properly venting the tank over the next week.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw


Last edited by ericvv on 22nd Dec 2013 5:00am. Edited 1 time in total
Post #290883 16th Dec 2013 7:11pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
theorangebandit



Member Since: 03 Jun 2013
Location: Stowmarket
Posts: 862

Mine had this. Though not yet leaking. I'll be locating some silicone house to replace them with as if this has happened on my 09 plate truck I doubta replacement will last much longer than these have
Post #290895 16th Dec 2013 7:50pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
New fuel breather pipe still not working....
ericvv wrote:
Here is the verdict. The new installed fuel breather pipe indeed was blocked. One of the head mechanics at my dealer whom I know quite well admitted today that these fuel breather pipes come from Land Rover with excess length.
Instead of cutting it down some to the required length, the mechanic had installed the pipe as is, and tucked it in place bending the pipe very sharply to the point that no air could pass anymore.
That has all been corrected now apparently. Hope this info is of interest to others who may be replacing the fuel tank breather pipe. Will now check if all is ok and properly venting the tank over the next week.
Eric


The latest. To my astonishment nothing is resolved. When I unscrew the fuel tank filler cap, I continue to have the sound of air swooshing in or out, so the air breather pipe is still blocked apparently. Have wiggled the new fuel breather pipe back and forth a bit, but that is not doing anything either. Don't want to touch it further myself as the entire truck is still under extended warranty, but also as the replacement of the fuel breather pipe by my dealer has been done only 3 months ago, there remains a warranty on this job alone. So off to the dealer again after their Xmas break. In the meantime, only thing I can do is to quickly unscrew the fuel filler cap before and after every drive to town, short as it may be, in order to avoid as much as possible a vacuum in the tank.

In the meantime two questions for the mechanic/technical wizzards here...
1. This rubber fuel filler breather pipe, and its much smaller air vent pipe in the form of a coat hanger hook (see pic), does it have any valves inside which might not be working, or are they just two open air channels without anything inside? Cannot really figure out what has happened here, and how this is possible at all with a truck which runs only on tarmac, and which is accumulating zero dirt underneath...
2. This just to confirm, but if all would be working as it should, the air pressure inside the tank should always be identical with the outside air pressure. Meaning, there never should be any air swooshing in or out when opening the filler cap. Correct?
Thanks, Eric

Click image to enlarge
 You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #292362 22nd Dec 2013 5:20am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
LesDef



Member Since: 06 Aug 2012
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 9

Gidday Ericvv,

I noticed a simmilar situation following continued overfilling upto the top of the filler neck.

I think the breather valve gets a gut full of fuel and refuses to operate normally.

Try connecting an extention pipe to the breather pipe, with fuel cap off, blow and then suck some air through the valve to clear its throat.

See how that goes over a few days testing, also the fuel cap should allow air in so that needs to be checked.

Regards Lesdef.
Post #292881 24th Dec 2013 5:53am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
Les, thanks for your advise and will check it out. A bit late response, but see your answer only now after returning from X-mas family duty visits abroad. Thumbs Up
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #293820 29th Dec 2013 6:20am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
Actually I never overfill the fuel tank. Always stopping at first automatic petrol pistol click-off. Wonder if the little coathanger hook shaped small breather thingy is outright blocked by something, or maybe even defective...
So tomorrow my dealers who made the replacement of the breather pipe will be back to work after the holidays break, and will have to look into this again and solve it....
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #294904 1st Jan 2014 4:04pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17323

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Eric, there are significant differences between the early type breather like mine and the later type like yours. Sadly I'm not familiar with the later type.

In the earlier type the atmospheric breather (the small u-shaped pipe, which allows air to enter the tank as fuel is used and prevents pressure build-up if the temperature rises) is entirely separate from the filling pipes. It is attached to the tank at the highest point via a "roll-over valve" or ROV which closes if you roll the vehicle, but at all other times is open. The pipe itself looks very similar to yours, and terminates in a U-shaped piece connected through a filter to stop dirt entering the tank. The filter is the little canister in the pipe - it is not a valve.

The filler breather is connected to the tank via a device which allows air to exit as the tank is filled but doesn't allow fuel to enter the filler breather pipe (or at least only allows it to enter very slowly). Once the fuel reaches this level it backs up in the large filler pipe and causes the pump trigger to trip. If you repeatedly dribble fuel in it is possible to fill to the neck, but this is bad practice (and is actually above the level of the atmospheric breather which will leak fuel). Once the cap is replaced there is no opening to atmospherethrough the filler pipe or filler breather.

With the later type, I suspect (but don't actually know) that the only difference is that the atmospheric breather has been teed into the filler breather. I don't know if there is now an ROV on the combined breather, but it won't make any difference with the Defender the right way up. The only real difference I can see is that it is probably even easier to flood the breather since its open end is even lower.

The only cause I can surmise for your symptoms is that your breather is still blocked!
Post #294950 1st Jan 2014 7:08pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
munch90



Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
Posts: 3558

England 
don't the valves on the tank breather and cap have valves in them that hold a slight pressure or slight vacuum. not totally open to atmosphere
Post #294954 1st Jan 2014 7:21pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
Blackwolf, thanks. I am sure it is still blocked. I have already informed my dealer by e-mail tonight, adding the weblink of this def2.net thread.

Munch, I don't see any reason why there should be any difference in atmospheric pressure at all. And if that would be the case, everybody should hear a smaller or larger hissing sound when unscrewing the filler cap. I know for sure that I never had any sound like that before, which also has been confirmed by a local friend who has a new Puma, and I guess all of you can confirm this too. i.e. no hissing sound at all when unscrewing the filler cap.

Will keep you posted how it gets resolved. Thumbs Up
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #294970 1st Jan 2014 7:57pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 3 of 14 <123 4 ... 121314>
All times are GMT

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
DEFENDER2.NET RSS Feed - All Forums