Home > Puma (Tdci) > fuel breather pipe |
|
|
lrmaniac Member Since: 04 Feb 2010 Location: Lisboa Posts: 762 |
Replaced mine last week... Not an easy job for the common DYI....no pics! sorry! But done as ericvv described! But my 110 is 3 1/2 years old and was a lot worse! Regards Joao '10 Land Rover Defender 110 CC '08 BMW F800GS '64 SIIA Forward Control '69 SIIA 109 ZA CKD _____________________________________________ You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you. |
||
10th Oct 2013 4:12pm |
|
skoller Member Since: 27 Oct 2011 Location: australia Posts: 7 |
Just discovered that my Pumas hose is also badly cracking at both ends. I will replaced it with quality hose if I can remove the tank end clip. It looks like a hard job to get at it and remove but I will persist at it. What are peoples thoughts on reattaching the smaller breather T connection on the outside of the chassis somewhere, instead of the inside, so its a bit easier to get to later if need be.
|
||
11th Oct 2013 7:12am |
|
ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816 |
Now, the new breather pipe is in place a few months, and the truck has run perfect as usual. But last week when taking off the fuel cap at the filling station, I heard air wooshing in, so seems there is some vacuum being created in the tank as fuel is consumed. Today, about 100km after last fill up, I unscrewed the fuel cap again and same air wooshing sound. As said the truck runs perfect, no signs of fuel starvation or other..... So questions. **Is this air wooshing in noise normal? (Don't think so, as cannot remember it did this before) **If not normal, is it certain that the fuel tank breather pipe is the culprit? **Or could it be something else, like for instance a blocked breather function of the fuel cap itself? (If the fuel cap has such function). If it is not normal, and if it would be the breather pipe being blocked, I will complain next week to my dealer who did the installation of the new breather pipe, and have them check it. Once again, sofar it has not affected the smooth running of the engine. Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
||
9th Dec 2013 6:47pm |
|
blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17323 |
Definitely not right. In normal operation as fuel is sucked from the tank air is admitted through a small breather pipe. On early vehicles like mine this was a separate pipe routed (cleverly) into the NSR wheelarch where it ingested crud; on later models (like yours) it was teed into the filler breather and terminates in some dirty wet place above the tank, where it ingests crud.
In the event that this breather becomes blocked, there is a two-way safety valve incorporated into the filler cap which will open if the tank's internal pressure differs by more than a few psi from the outside pressure. The purpose of this is to prevent the tank from collapsing or bursting if the breather is blocked. From your description your atmospheric breather (small pipe) is blocked so the tank is running in a depressurised condition, the pressure difference being limited by the safety valve in the cap. This is bad for two reasons. Firstly the LP fuel pump will be working harder to draw the fuel to the engine, and secondly any dirt, wetness, and other grot can be drawn through the lock barrel in the cap into the tank. My recent fuel problems (as reported in other threads) have made me hyper-aware of the vulnerabilities of the system. I would strongly recommend fixing this ASAP, and also extending the small breather pipe to somewhere you can guarantee is clean and dry, eg inside the rear tub. |
||
9th Dec 2013 7:56pm |
|
ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816 |
Thanks blackwolf. I will pass by my dealer tomorrow with this info. Will report back about their findings.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
||
9th Dec 2013 8:25pm |
|
ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816 |
Here is the verdict. The new installed fuel breather pipe indeed was blocked. One of the head mechanics at my dealer whom I know quite well admitted today that these fuel breather pipes come from Land Rover with excess length.
Instead of cutting it down some to the required length, the mechanic had installed the pipe as is, and tucked it in place bending the pipe very sharply to the point that no air could pass anymore. That has all been corrected now apparently. Hope this info is of interest to others who may be replacing the fuel tank breather pipe. Will now check if all is ok and properly venting the tank over the next week. Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw Last edited by ericvv on 22nd Dec 2013 5:00am. Edited 1 time in total |
||
16th Dec 2013 7:11pm |
|
theorangebandit Member Since: 03 Jun 2013 Location: Stowmarket Posts: 862 |
Mine had this. Though not yet leaking. I'll be locating some silicone house to replace them with as if this has happened on my 09 plate truck I doubta replacement will last much longer than these have
|
||
16th Dec 2013 7:50pm |
|
ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816 |
The latest. To my astonishment nothing is resolved. When I unscrew the fuel tank filler cap, I continue to have the sound of air swooshing in or out, so the air breather pipe is still blocked apparently. Have wiggled the new fuel breather pipe back and forth a bit, but that is not doing anything either. Don't want to touch it further myself as the entire truck is still under extended warranty, but also as the replacement of the fuel breather pipe by my dealer has been done only 3 months ago, there remains a warranty on this job alone. So off to the dealer again after their Xmas break. In the meantime, only thing I can do is to quickly unscrew the fuel filler cap before and after every drive to town, short as it may be, in order to avoid as much as possible a vacuum in the tank. In the meantime two questions for the mechanic/technical wizzards here... 1. This rubber fuel filler breather pipe, and its much smaller air vent pipe in the form of a coat hanger hook (see pic), does it have any valves inside which might not be working, or are they just two open air channels without anything inside? Cannot really figure out what has happened here, and how this is possible at all with a truck which runs only on tarmac, and which is accumulating zero dirt underneath... 2. This just to confirm, but if all would be working as it should, the air pressure inside the tank should always be identical with the outside air pressure. Meaning, there never should be any air swooshing in or out when opening the filler cap. Correct? Thanks, Eric Click image to enlarge You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
||
22nd Dec 2013 5:20am |
|
LesDef Member Since: 06 Aug 2012 Location: Western Australia Posts: 9 |
Gidday Ericvv,
I noticed a simmilar situation following continued overfilling upto the top of the filler neck. I think the breather valve gets a gut full of fuel and refuses to operate normally. Try connecting an extention pipe to the breather pipe, with fuel cap off, blow and then suck some air through the valve to clear its throat. See how that goes over a few days testing, also the fuel cap should allow air in so that needs to be checked. Regards Lesdef. |
||
24th Dec 2013 5:53am |
|
ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816 |
Les, thanks for your advise and will check it out. A bit late response, but see your answer only now after returning from X-mas family duty visits abroad.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
||
29th Dec 2013 6:20am |
|
ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816 |
Actually I never overfill the fuel tank. Always stopping at first automatic petrol pistol click-off. Wonder if the little coathanger hook shaped small breather thingy is outright blocked by something, or maybe even defective...
So tomorrow my dealers who made the replacement of the breather pipe will be back to work after the holidays break, and will have to look into this again and solve it.... Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
||
1st Jan 2014 4:04pm |
|
blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17323 |
Eric, there are significant differences between the early type breather like mine and the later type like yours. Sadly I'm not familiar with the later type.
In the earlier type the atmospheric breather (the small u-shaped pipe, which allows air to enter the tank as fuel is used and prevents pressure build-up if the temperature rises) is entirely separate from the filling pipes. It is attached to the tank at the highest point via a "roll-over valve" or ROV which closes if you roll the vehicle, but at all other times is open. The pipe itself looks very similar to yours, and terminates in a U-shaped piece connected through a filter to stop dirt entering the tank. The filter is the little canister in the pipe - it is not a valve. The filler breather is connected to the tank via a device which allows air to exit as the tank is filled but doesn't allow fuel to enter the filler breather pipe (or at least only allows it to enter very slowly). Once the fuel reaches this level it backs up in the large filler pipe and causes the pump trigger to trip. If you repeatedly dribble fuel in it is possible to fill to the neck, but this is bad practice (and is actually above the level of the atmospheric breather which will leak fuel). Once the cap is replaced there is no opening to atmospherethrough the filler pipe or filler breather. With the later type, I suspect (but don't actually know) that the only difference is that the atmospheric breather has been teed into the filler breather. I don't know if there is now an ROV on the combined breather, but it won't make any difference with the Defender the right way up. The only real difference I can see is that it is probably even easier to flood the breather since its open end is even lower. The only cause I can surmise for your symptoms is that your breather is still blocked! |
||
1st Jan 2014 7:08pm |
|
munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558 |
don't the valves on the tank breather and cap have valves in them that hold a slight pressure or slight vacuum. not totally open to atmosphere
|
||
1st Jan 2014 7:21pm |
|
ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816 |
Blackwolf, thanks. I am sure it is still blocked. I have already informed my dealer by e-mail tonight, adding the weblink of this def2.net thread.
Munch, I don't see any reason why there should be any difference in atmospheric pressure at all. And if that would be the case, everybody should hear a smaller or larger hissing sound when unscrewing the filler cap. I know for sure that I never had any sound like that before, which also has been confirmed by a local friend who has a new Puma, and I guess all of you can confirm this too. i.e. no hissing sound at all when unscrewing the filler cap. Will keep you posted how it gets resolved. Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
||
1st Jan 2014 7:57pm |
|
|
All times are GMT |
< Previous Topic | Next Topic > |
Posting Rules
|
Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis