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Nur Links



Member Since: 25 Jul 2013
Location: Sodom (or Gomorra) in the Low Countries
Posts: 35

SW conversion to soft top with Safety Devices cage
I am new to this forum, so if this is the wrong place to start, introduce myself and ask a question, I stand corrected.

Through a true act of man logic I have convinced myself that it makes sense to have our own car at our holiday home, instead of renting. I can't repeat the math, but I assure you that it's cheaper. In the end. At some point. Since I am a car nut with a habit of buying fun but utterly senseless cars I have decided that the only possible choice is a Defender. Because we have a tiny baby who must be transported in safety we need four forward facing seats + three point belts . And because we have a house near the beach a soft top with roll up sides is a requirement.

Now here my problem starts. I am a newby to Defenders, but AFAIK a Defender Soft Top with 4 forward facing seats doesn't exist. Since the soft top is not type approved with 4 forward facing seats, I am now thinking of buying a Td4 2.4 SW, taking the roof of, fitting a Safety Devices 6 point cage (type L236) with front AND rear seat belt mounting points and fitting a soft top. My questions to you are:

- Does what I think make sense
- Has anyone done this conversion to a TdCi Defender
- How difficult is it to fit the L236 cage
- Are the rear seat belt points on the cage legal (i.e. does it affect my insurance)
- Do I lose a lot of torsional stiffness (or does it improve)
- Does anyone have pictures of a car as described above
- What else to consider and are there alternatives

I would be really grateful for your answers and tips!
Post #253726 25th Jul 2013 9:32pm
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yobbie



Member Since: 15 Nov 2010
Location: Isle of Wight
Posts: 712

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 90 Td5 Heritage LE Bronze Green
Have a look at a SVX 90 Thumbs Up
Post #253753 26th Jul 2013 6:08am
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James @ Grange Barnet LR



Member Since: 21 Oct 2012
Location: Barnet, North London
Posts: 201

United Kingdom 1996 Defender 90 300 Tdi ST Zermatt Silver
Unfortunately the SVX is just a 2 Seater.

I have a TDI converted to a soft top with a SD front cage, therefore can't specifically answer your questions relating to seat belt mounts....... But what I can say is 'do it' as they are great fun!

One point.. Perhaps start with a basic SW with vynal seats and rubber flooring so that you can relax a little about the odd shower.

James Thumbs Up


Click image to enlarge


Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated Mr. Green  Follow us on Twitter: @GrangeBarnetJLR Thumbs Up
Post #253756 26th Jul 2013 6:42am
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Nur Links



Member Since: 25 Jul 2013
Location: Sodom (or Gomorra) in the Low Countries
Posts: 35

@James

My main issue is legality/safety with the cage fitted and the amount of work involved. I need to get the car through MOT of course and I want to be insured. The rear seats won't be the problem. That's a type approved part in case of an SW. The issue is the rear fixing point of the belts.

The idea was to buy a basic specced car just for that reason. Maybe the load/rear area car be coated with a 'bed liner' as the yankees call it (=line-x). Easy to clean as the car will get sandy and dusty near the beach and might also reduce resonance.

Is the car in the picture yours? It looks like you have the 'Military' cage behind the seats doesn't it? I Looking at pics of the the L236 cage, it is a little more difficult to fit.
Post #253758 26th Jul 2013 6:58am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17380

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I suppose that if you were really concerned about the mounts you could put the completed vehicle through the SVA process.
Post #253762 26th Jul 2013 7:25am
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James @ Grange Barnet LR



Member Since: 21 Oct 2012
Location: Barnet, North London
Posts: 201

United Kingdom 1996 Defender 90 300 Tdi ST Zermatt Silver
Yes it's mine and ignore the rear section as its only purpose is to frame the hood when fitted. As I don't carry rear passengers the rear section is removed. Front section is SD.

James Thumbs Up Follow us on Twitter: @GrangeBarnetJLR Thumbs Up
Post #253764 26th Jul 2013 7:28am
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tookaphotoof



Member Since: 18 Mar 2013
Location: dordrecht
Posts: 1279

Netherlands 2013 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Santorini Black
Post #253765 26th Jul 2013 7:28am
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Nur Links



Member Since: 25 Jul 2013
Location: Sodom (or Gomorra) in the Low Countries
Posts: 35

In Holland we have no SVA procedure. We are under a form of communist rule, therefore just for the seat belt mounts I would need to go through a full type approval process including a crash test. This is no Joke! The SVA combined with EU import regs is a great thing: I also have a Lotus 2 Eleven, which was originally delivered in the UK, SVA'd and registered. I bought it second hand and had the registration completed in 15 minutes. A car previously registered anywhere in Europe has to be approved over here. To do modifications like this on a car with Dutch plates however, is practically impossible.

@ tookaphotoof: I've seen the 110 at Riverhouse. Is a very nice looking conversion and beautifully executed. I think the seller used a loophole in the Dutch law because for older cars the rules are much less strict. The price (USD 65,000!!!) for this car probably reflects the hours spent on it, but it's too much for something that will be used 10 weeks per year. But apart from being a 110 it is what I want to achieve.

However, I want a 90 and preferably a mondern one. In Spain I don't want to spend my time spannering on an old beast. I would estimate the total cost (apart from the base car) incl. cage, roof, welding and some paintwork at around GPB 2.000-3.500. A relatively young 90 (=Td4) acquired locally in Spain however, would be the best basis IMHO. These cars are cheap and plentiful over there.

I'm open for ideas and particularly for first hand experiences however!

This is a good example of what I want to do: suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/land-rover-defender-90-sw-soft-top-umbau-4sitze-abs-klima-ravensburg-nähe-bodensee/181603830.html


Last edited by Nur Links on 26th Jul 2013 1:11pm. Edited 2 times in total
Post #253813 26th Jul 2013 12:09pm
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tookaphotoof



Member Since: 18 Mar 2013
Location: dordrecht
Posts: 1279

Netherlands 2013 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Santorini Black
Expensive car indeed. The new owner payed € 38.000,00 for it.
On the one hand I think it's probably worth it, but wouldn't be my choice though. Bought a new 130, which saved me a lot of tax and it's got 3 years warranty, for my own piece of mind.

2 Eleven is a very nice car. Have looked at it in the past, but in the end I'm more of a Caterham guy. 2 Eleven is just a bit too modern looking for me. Laughing
Post #253820 26th Jul 2013 1:00pm
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Nur Links



Member Since: 25 Jul 2013
Location: Sodom (or Gomorra) in the Low Countries
Posts: 35

My tow car is a Rangie Sport, so that's a good contemporary fit with the 2-11! Have fun with your two dinosaurs Mr. Green
Post #253823 26th Jul 2013 1:09pm
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tookaphotoof



Member Since: 18 Mar 2013
Location: dordrecht
Posts: 1279

Netherlands 2013 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Santorini Black
Mr. Green
Post #253825 26th Jul 2013 1:40pm
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jerseyman



Member Since: 21 Jul 2009
Location: Jersey
Posts: 279

This looks a great project but if you are going to keep the car in Spain do not underestimate the hassle that you may get when you need to get an ITV for what will look like a heavily modded vehicle.
Post #253840 26th Jul 2013 3:45pm
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Nur Links



Member Since: 25 Jul 2013
Location: Sodom (or Gomorra) in the Low Countries
Posts: 35

I have not dealt with the Spanish ITV before, but I hoped that as long as the conversion looks convincingly OEM, I could convince the guy that it is a Defender hard top with the hard top removed. Do you speak from experience and are they that strict?

Have a look at the one I posted above: suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/land-rover-defender-90-sw-soft-top-umbau-4sitze-abs-klima-ravensburg-nähe-bodensee/181603830.html

If German TuV accepts it....
Post #253846 26th Jul 2013 4:46pm
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jerseyman



Member Since: 21 Jul 2009
Location: Jersey
Posts: 279

Not directly, I was at one time thinking of getting my Tomb Raider registered in Spain, I discussed this with a specialist and he strongly suggested I strip off the screen protection bar before getting it ITV'd, this was despite the bar of course being OEM. The chap reckoned that they are very strict on 4*4s. I never had to test the theory because once he realised that the car was not registered in the EU, the whole idea became a non starter.

can any of the Spanish member contribute more on this?

Actually I should have kept quiet I am looking forward to seeing this project progress.
Post #253850 26th Jul 2013 5:01pm
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

United Kingdom 
I used to know a guy who lived in Spain that owned a Tomb Raider. The only sticking point was the roof lights, which had to be disconnected. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia
Post #253856 26th Jul 2013 6:35pm
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