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dhopable

Member Since: 31 Dec 2012
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 47

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Tonga Green

clutch problems...

Hi all,

Ok so its not your usual early model puma clutch rattle, but yes I've already had that and had a new clutch put in under warranty by the garage I bought the 90 from, NOT a Land Rover dealer, but a Ford dealer.

Mines a 57 plate 90 and had the clutch put in about 1,000 miles ago just before christmas.

After it was changed everything seemed fine, no rattle, lovely and smooth, but over the past few weeks I've started to get a judder on take off.

When the engine is warm, not so bad when cold, and you come to a stop at traffic lights or roundabout etc, then leaving off in 1st there is a very noticeable judder as the clutch takes up. It is excessively bad when towing weight. And doesn't seem to have any difference when you feed in more revs or less.

The worst time it happened was when I was stopped on a hill at a roundabout with traffic lights, with a diesel bowser behind me. As I took foot off the clutch the judder was so bad it felt like the bloody gearbox was gonna shake off! I had to put the clutch back in and try again constantly dipping the pedal with power to stop it juddering too badly.

This only happens when leaving off in 1st or reverse from a standstill. When shifting through the gears all is smooth as normal and there is no slip when accelerating hard or making it work up a hill etc.

I've rang around the odd land rover dealer/mechanic friends and so far the opinions are:

1. The replacement clutch that was put in was not an OE part and therefore not heavy duty enough, so the clutch is grabbing and then slipping. (even only after a 1,000 miles of use ????)

2. When we had the floods over the winter I went through some flooded roads, as everyone probably did, nothing too high, I don't have a snorkel and never had any water in the doors etc. I also drive down a fair few rutted tracks etc as it is a working farm vehicle and as a result or this water, grit and grime has got into the clutch housing and caused an uneven surface on the clutch plates causing the juddering...

3. The flywheel wasn't changed when the clutch was changed and therefore is unbalanced. But i thought the Puma's had a solid sprung flywheel and therefore this wasn't a necessary requirement on clutch changes and cannot become unbalanced unless a large chuck is chipped out or something..?

So far it seems to be getting worse as each day goes on, very much so in the last 3 days. A lot worse than it was say 3 weeks ago.

I am currently thinking the only solution is to put another clutch in, one which i know is an OE part. Im going to have to do this myself as I cant afford £700 for a dealer to do it and would rather just spend the £190 for the kit.

If anyone has experienced this sort of thing PLEASE tell me what I can do and if I'm right by changing the clutch again. I'm guessing that I wont know whats wrong with it until I take it apart...?

Cheers
Doug

28th Feb 2013 8:27pm

dondiddy

Member Since: 13 Nov 2012
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 224

Hi Doug, There is a whole raft of reasons the judder can occur some of which you mention in your post. You should check that the engine/gearbox mountings are still in place and haven`t burst/come loose. This you can check by getting underneath and having a look and if there are no health and safety police around have someone GENTLY bring up the clutch to the bite point with the engine running and the car in gear. The trick is getting yourself in a position where you can see what`s happening underneath without getting run over in the process! Oil contamination from a leaking crankshaft seal can also cause problems. Is there any oil around the back of the engine/bellhousing? Failing that then it`s probably a gearbox out job to check for actual physical damage to the clutch or flywheel, missing dowels,loose bolts etc. If you do a lot of heavy towing then the replacement clutch might not have been up to the job although I would have thought with the low 1st gear on the puma it wouldn`t have stressed the clutch that much when pulling away even when towing. If you have to replace the clutch again best to go for an original LR part and avoid the temptation to fit a cheaper Britpart alternative. Cheers! (Disclaimer) The mention of lying underneath the Land Rover whilst someone tries to drive over you in it should not be attempted at home! Any mention of this in the text was carried out by trained professionals on a closed course!

1st Mar 2013 10:08pm

dhopable

Member Since: 31 Dec 2012
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 47

cheers dondiddy, thats a great help!

there is some oil under the bottom of the bell-housing where it bolts onto the engine, around that little half moon hole at the base. but ive been told that is normal?

do you think its come from above and got in the housing and is causing the clutch to slip? what is the procedure for this now then? do i need to replace the clutch anyway as its now contaminated?

i was going to replace it with a LR OE one for sure because of all the problems with the clutches on the early pumas. seems safest option not to cut costs!

Cheers
Doug

3rd Mar 2013 1:02pm

dondiddy

Member Since: 13 Nov 2012
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 224

Hi Doug, Although people will tell you that its a Land Rover and they all leak oil they shouldn`t really. The bottom of the sump/ gearbox area should be dry and leak free with at worse a very light oil misting around the bellhousing area. Reality is an oil leak can be very hard to find as airflow,vibration etc can make the oil spread in every direction from the actual leak site. Even upwards on occasion! A jet wash to get rid of the oil then a test drive to see if it reappears might help you locate the problem but try and keep water away from the alternator etc.
Reality is your probably going to have to pull the gearbox out to get to the heart of the problem. Any number of things besides oil could cause the judder. It will hopefully be obvious what the problem is once you have the Land Rover in bits! What was wrong with the original clutch that it has to be changed and have you spoken/complained to the garage that did the work that its playing up again?Just a thought?

3rd Mar 2013 10:43pm

dhopable

Member Since: 31 Dec 2012
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 47

Just thought I'd update if anyone was curious..!?

I changed my clutch yesterday. Note to self: Dougie you are not a land rover mechanic!

What appears to have been the cause was that when the clutch was replaced under warranty the 'ford dealer' only replaced the friction plate and not the pressure plate or the thrust bearing. You could see the wear on the friction plate was uneven and thus causing the slip on initial take off when the pressure on the thrust bearing is less quick as in 2nd, 3rd etc.

ALSO when I took out the thrust bearing there was a definite notch on the movement range, now I don't know whether this would aid the slipping on the clutch as the pressure plate wouldn't have had an even force all the way the initial power take up. Ok I think I'm not making sense but I know what I mean!!

Anyway, now is the time to take the original bits to the dealer and have it out with them for lying to me saying they put s kit in when clearly it was only a friction plate!!!

And breathe!

Cheers
Doug

9th Mar 2013 11:43am

dilukabey

Member Since: 17 May 2011
Location: Sri Lanka
Posts: 173

2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Keswick Green

Hi Doug,
I am having a simillar sort of problem as what you used to experience before. I guess just my clutch was replaced when it was 17k miles and now i have done 43k and having the rattle at idle and judder at 1st 2nd gears + when depress / release the clutch and throttle. But when i enquired my usual LR guarage expert here, he advised me to change the flywheel part no. LR006953 to avoid the excessive play. Does that make any sense?

Cheers

Kind regards,
Diluk

19th Nov 2013 1:15pm

Augustus

Member Since: 23 Mar 2016
Location: Carcassonne
Posts: 86

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey

This sounds similar to the thread i just posted.

Did the new OE parts solve the judder?

I had had thrust bearing mentioned as a possible. Might look into that.

Thanks. Hope your's is sorted.

8th Apr 2016 8:42pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

dhopable wrote:
Anyway, now is the time to take the original bits to the dealer and have it out with them for lying to me saying they put s kit in when clearly it was only a friction plate!!!

Thanks for taking the time to do an update - out of curiosity why did you not return the vehicle to the dealer to resolve as the part(s) were only changed recently.

9th Apr 2016 8:59am

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