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| cobs Member Since: 12 Jun 2008 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 336   
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If you haven't done it already have a look at the steering lock stops before considering spacers, made a big difference on mine.
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic15312.html? |
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3rd Dec 2012 10:11am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17321 
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Rakeway are as good as they get. There are no safety issues with good quality spacers, but don' t forget to tell your insurance company. Some insurers (the less savvy ones) have an issue with spacers.
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3rd Dec 2012 5:35pm |
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| WWA Member Since: 12 Aug 2012 Location: Northumberland Posts: 197 
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Thanks guys, I adjusted the lock stops this morning and whilst I couldn't get them all the way in due to rubbing I did gain a bit and the turning is slightly better. I will go down the spacers route at some point though.
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7th Dec 2012 12:44pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 7987  
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you do put greater strain on bearings greater distance out and Cvs with the great arc which with large wheels doesn't help longevity. Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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7th Dec 2012 9:29pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17321
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Not to any significant extent unless you go for extremes. Wheel spacers won't affect your wheelbearings any more or any less than wheels with an equivalent changed offset. It is just another of those urban legends that they will. Unless you opt for a very thick spacer or hugely different offset wheel, the increased loadings on the suspension components should be negligible. The only aspect of the steering geometry that will be affected is the 'scrub radius', which is a function of the steering axis inclination and camber angle. The scrub radius is the distance between the point at which a line drawn through the centres of the top and bottom swivel pins instersects with the ground, and the line along which a plane through the rotational centre of the tyre intersects with the ground (which is generally outboard of the steering axis interstection point). The scrub radius will increase if the tyre is moved outwards, either by use of a spacer or by use of a wheel with reduced (ie "more negative") offset. However, the scrub radius will decrease if a larger diameter tyre is fitted without changing the offset, since the act of raising the axle further from the ground will move the intersection point of the steering axis and ground plane outwards. Fitting a wider tyre of the same diameter to a wheel of the same offset won't affect the scrub radius at all, since the increase in tyre with is shared equally on either side of the rim. The result of this is that fitting spacers and larger tyres will actually affect the steering geometry less than fitting spacers without fitting larger tyres. The effect of increasing the scrub radius is that the vehicle will be more affected by changes and irregularities in the road surface; for eample, it may be more prone to 'tramlining' in lorry-ruts on motorways, more prone to a wobble when crossing white lines; that sort of thing. When I bought my 07 DC it had 285/75s already fitted on standard Boosts without spacers, and I fitted 30mm spacers as soon as I reasonably could (principally because the turning circle was unbelievable!). I found that the steering performance and handling improved afterwards. One thing to bear in mind with spacers, especially thin ones, is that the hub/wheel interface may not be as strong as before, and this is probably the area of most concern (and the reason why spacers are not allowed in motorsport). For the spacer to work, the spacer must be bolted to the original wheelstuds and the the wheel bolted to studs fixed in the spacer. Therefore (a) the spacer must be of adequate strength/thickness to mount the new studs securely, and (b) the spacer must be think enough to accomodate the full length of the original wheel-studs AND the thickness of the nuts holding it to the original studs within the thickness of the spacer. With thin spacers, there is relatively little material left to secure the spacer after it has been counterbored to accomodate the nut. I don't believe that any reputable manufacturer makes spacers for LRs which are less than 30mm, and this is the reason. There is no reason why any of the nuts should ever come loose. There is another urban legend that says the nuts should be threadlocked, but this is not a good idea. If the threads are kept clean with just a hint of copper-grease, and the nuts are torqued correctly, the nuts will not loosen. Many insurance companies will frown upon the use of spacers and it is not clear why. It may be that they are too ignorant to understand them fully, or more likely they have stats whcih show that cars with spacers fitted are more likely to be involved in accidents than those without, which is probably true in the case of the Corsa-Kiddies but not 4WDs. A specialist insurer should be OK with them. |
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7th Dec 2012 11:24pm |
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| davew Member Since: 02 Jan 2012 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 888  
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Spacers are allowed in Motorsport BUT they must be TUV approved and none of the suppliers I have asked have ever been able to show that their spacers are TUV approved. Some of the "less trustworthy" types have said "oh yes m8, course they are" but when pressed they've not been able to prove it. When the MSA scrutineering panel looked at a selection of typical spacers for Land Rovers many of them were found to be inadequate with either too little material in points of high stress or materials being used of an unknown composition. Hence the change in the rule that now requires TUV approval of any spacer where previously spacers were limited to 25mm (which is impractical for Land Rover spacers).
I suspect the reason insurers aren't "keen" on them is for the same reason as above. You really have no idea who made the spacers, what materials and heat treatments were used and what weight they have been tested to safely bear (if they have been tested at all other than "well, none of them have fallen off yet"). Many of these spacers are being sold with no approval, no testing and no certificates of conformity so you really have no idea what you are relying on to hold your wheel to the hub. Is it any wonder that insurers are nervous of them ? Wheel spacers are a bodge, much better to just get the correct wheels in the first place or just reduce the tyre size. It's worth checking you're getting full lock in both directions too, many of the first time competitors who turn up at trials have offset steering, usually due to moving the steering wheel on the splines rather than adjusting the drag link or because the box was never centred in the first place. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/ |
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8th Dec 2012 12:41am |
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| Kraut Member Since: 28 Dec 2011 Location: Westphalia Posts: 336  
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I got TUV approved 30 mm Spacers from Matzker, in combination with 4-5 cm lowered suspension significant imrovement on the street. Turning cicle improved a lot too. Not the cheapest set but with TUV and that's what counted for me.
They even sell a second type of spacers where you can use all wheels of D3/4, RRS and FFRR. Difference in look between with/without spacers and 235/265 wheels are shown in my gallery. http://www.matzker.de/Parts-Accessories/fu...:3509.html http://www.matzker.de/Parts-Accessories/fu...:4283.html Last edited by Kraut on 8th Dec 2012 11:25am. Edited 1 time in total |
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8th Dec 2012 8:40am |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8580
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TUV approved wheel spacers are available in the UK. There is a slight problem however. They cost 2-3 times the amount of money being charged on eBay etc. If you want officially approved kit it is likely to cost more due to the costs of meeting the specific standard tests and also smaller production runs pushing up costs in comparison to the cheaper non approved items. Brendan |
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8th Dec 2012 9:30am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 7987
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i agree wheel spacers wont affect your wheel bearings any more than the equivalent offset wheel, however we are looking at keeping the current off set and fitting wheel spacers which will put a greater strain on the bearings than current. i don't see that as an urban legend i see that as fact. i was merely eluding to the point that if you have larger than std tyres and then add wheel spacers (or change off set of the rims) to get the lock back after fitting wider tyres you will have a greater load on the bearings. if you are fitting them to increase the arc on std width tyres/rims, then the CVs will work through greater arcs which can result in a reduction in their life. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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8th Dec 2012 1:52pm |
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| sraosha Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Dar es Salaam Posts: 29 
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There are a couple ones available from Nakatenga. At least on their website they state "TUV Gutachten" (approval). http://nakatanenga-tours.de/shop/category_...=cid%3D%26 Cheers, Claus |
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11th Aug 2015 1:11pm |
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| need4speed Member Since: 23 Nov 2012 Location: Kilmarnock Posts: 746 |
Never heard of anyone having any problems with Rakeway spacers.
But then I've never heard of any problems regarding the Bulldog spacers either, and they are quite a bit cheaper. For peace of mind maybe err towards the Rakeway as they know they're oats when it comes to good engineering. |
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12th Aug 2015 12:45pm |
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