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Pam W Member Since: 25 Oct 2011 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 1169 |
If the driver refuses to drive the vehicle in an unsafe condition, then gets fired they can take the employer to a tribunal for unfair dismissal. The HSE would probably be very interested in the case also.
An employer cannot fired someone for NOT committing an criminal offence, which is would be if he drove the vehicle. In Health and Safety terms in addition to RTA, the employee cannot be sacked for refusing to do unsafe work, which again it would be if he knowingly drove an unsafe car. If they are sacked then, as I say, they would have a legal framework to help them. Easier said than done, I guess, to refuse unsafe working conditions, but far better to get home safely to your family, with a clean driving licence! Our blog - http://landytravels.com/ Yorkshire Off Road Club - http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net |
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19th Sep 2012 8:21pm |
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Pam W Member Since: 25 Oct 2011 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 1169 |
But on the original issue, I too would be perfectly happy to be stopped for this sort of check.
Here in North Yorks, we don't have fixed speed cameras and it has been shown that the roads are just as safe, if not safer, by using mobile camera vans and routine spot checks on problem roads. Proper policing for the correct reasons (ie. not just to make money). Just hope that now we are getting elected top bods at the police that they won't press their own personal agendas and ruin what has been a good system. Our blog - http://landytravels.com/ Yorkshire Off Road Club - http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net |
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19th Sep 2012 8:24pm |
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Glynparry25 Member Since: 16 Feb 2009 Location: Miserable Midlands Posts: 3015 |
Pam beat me to it..... If you refuse to drive because the vehicle is unroadworthy and the boss fires you there is a lot of money comming your way.
If you drive a vehicle and it is unsafe or unroadworthy. It comes down to you.... not the boss who sits in an office and hasn't seen the vehicle for 3 months. Glyn |
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20th Sep 2012 5:19am |
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Landlord Member Since: 27 Oct 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 582 |
Think you'll find it makes no difference. Boss has a duty of care to ensure vehicles are road worthy and legal. He would committ the offence of Cause or Permit, whether he has seen vehicle or not. I run a fleet of vehicles and chek them fairly regulary. Although I insist the drivers check tyres, windscreen washer fluid, fill out log books etc, it's like talking to a brick wall ! In a previous life I may have had dealings with this sort of thing 2007 TD5 90 Hard Top |
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20th Sep 2012 5:52am |
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MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2665 |
Agree There was a similar roadblock on the A9 near me a couple of weeks ago. This was the result:
As the police look at a line of vehicles coming towards them, they seem to home-in (as you would) on the cars that stand-out. By stand-out, I mean front fogs on, badly adjusted lights, headlamp out, noisy exhaust, old & rusty car etc... Every year the police do morning breath tests on the main roads into Edinburgh, a friend's wife was stopped a couple of years ago for driving with front fogs on, after a lecture, it was obvious the copper was getting his nose as close to get as possible to check her breath for alcohol. I have no problem with this, I drive legally (well, usually ). If someone does nick my vehicle, or drive illegally so as to be a risk to others, I hope the cops do catch them... Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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20th Sep 2012 6:11am |
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22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3149 |
From a truck driving point of view you would need a huge payout as you would almost certainly never work again in the industry. Too many people, too few jobs, employers won't give a job to a "nark". I get this myself, I might think a tyre doesn't look too clever, or whatever the issue is, and you always know the bosses will say "nah its fine". Its the driver who loses out, not them. |
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20th Sep 2012 8:53am |
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mrandmrsh Member Since: 31 May 2010 Location: Huddersfield Posts: 692 |
From the West Yorkshire Police website
Be interested to know if anything happens Regards Craig 2015 110 USW XS in Santorini with premium contrast leather seats in tan/black, black headlining and with Dual Finish alloys (in the garage, now on Wolf rims with Goodyear MT/Rs) 2012 '62' 2.2 X-Tech 110 USW now gone ... 1984 90 soft top with full roll cage, 200 tdi engine etc now sold 2012 USW XS 2.2 "FUU" now gone.... |
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20th Sep 2012 9:35am |
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scotty38 Member Since: 21 May 2011 Location: Lincolnshire Posts: 571 |
Don't get me wrong I know the difference between wrong and right and understand the sentiments expressed on this thread and who should do what etc etc etc but as they say
Let he who is without sin....... |
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20th Sep 2012 10:28am |
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JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443 |
I will admit to driving offences when I was young, no insurance and bald tyres. The only speeding offence I've had was in my current Defender on the A38 in Bristol but what I will say that when I grew up, even more so when I had kids I realised that 90% of the offences that are flouted are plainly dangerous and can have such huge consequences on your life and the lives of others.
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20th Sep 2012 11:34am |
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scotty38 Member Since: 21 May 2011 Location: Lincolnshire Posts: 571 |
Very true and in these cases you were responsible for your own actions. What we're talking about here is grassing people up for offences when we don't necessarily know the circumstances. Yes, they may be fully aware of what they're doing but then again they may not (no excuse in the eyes of the law, I know that) so reporting them and them possibly ending up with no job etc may not be the way to go about it. Like I said if people are completely without any previous, no matter how small, then fire away and grass them up. However if you feel that strongly I'd have a word with the bloke in question first. Who knows he may even thank you for it, you may get a punch in the mouth too but who knows.... |
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20th Sep 2012 12:18pm |
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leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8580 |
Some interesting comments.
People may or maynot accept responsibility for their actions. But what about the innocent victims of the consequences of their actions? Over recent years a lorry with defective brakes killed 6 innocent people. 4 children die due to defects in car. Now would those people still be alive if someone had 'grassed' on drivers/owners.? Defective tyres don't kill people? According to tyre safe an average of about 35/year and over a 1,000 casulties per year. So is it a case of 'grassing' or social responsibilty? Brendan |
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20th Sep 2012 1:46pm |
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custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20281 |
Another thing to add into the mix - IF you knew of a defective vehicle yet didn't report it due to the person involved and then they / it had an accident and seriously hurt or killed someone could you live with yourself knowing previously the vehicle was defective? âï¸âï¸God Bless the USA 🇬🇧🇺🇸 âï¸âï¸
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20th Sep 2012 1:57pm |
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scotty38 Member Since: 21 May 2011 Location: Lincolnshire Posts: 571 |
Of course nobody wants to turn a blind eye to a problem that results in innocent, or otherwise, people coming to harm. I'm not saying that, what I am saying is there may be other ways of dealing with it rather than going straight to the police and causing someone a whole heap of trouble that could have been avoided.
On the flip side I wouldn't want to be responsible for putting a man out of work and not being able to support his family by grassing him up if I could have achieved my desired result by having a word with him. Every situation will be different and will need to be judged accordingly, I just don't think reporting it to the police should be the default action. I would welcome a neighbour telling me about my bald tyre rather than me getting the police knocking on the door but then I like to think I'm a reasonable person..... |
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20th Sep 2012 2:21pm |
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Glynparry25 Member Since: 16 Feb 2009 Location: Miserable Midlands Posts: 3015 |
Not to be funny but if your job is to be a professional driver it encompasses everything. This includes the condition of the vehicle as you leave the factory, yard or home.
People mention losing your job because you refuse to drive a unsafe or illegal vehicle and therefore unable to earn for your family. What if you cause an accident that kills several people.... take the court fees, the time in prison and the fact you will never be able to drive again never mind do it for a job. You can then add the family shame, abuse etc to it!! Yes that is the extreme outcome.... on the other hand, you get pulled and get say 6 points for 2 unserviceable tires and add a hefty fine to that. Then explain to the boss why you have them.... personal vehicle insurance goes up and there is the possibility of the company saying you are too high a risk. Either way it is a lose-lose situation. Heck you could even go out and replace the tires on a van for less than the resulting fines!!! A vehicle can be a device of life or death just like a weapon if not treated with respect and not following the safety rules. I think it comes down to personal integrity and courage at the end of the day, Glyn |
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20th Sep 2012 7:21pm |
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