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FG



Member Since: 01 Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere on the Swedish East Coast
Posts: 63

Sweden 2009 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
CFPP in my neck of the woods -33 celsius, days like these not that hard to understand. Brrrr!

/FG
Post #121876 6th Feb 2012 7:07pm
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mick



Member Since: 08 Feb 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 2109

England 2010 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Rimini Red
What happened to the old fashioned remedy of a gallon of paraffin in the tank.
Post #121878 6th Feb 2012 7:14pm
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ZeDefender



Member Since: 15 Sep 2011
Location: Munich
Posts: 4731

Germany 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Baltic Blue
That's where it all confuses me. Apparently paraffin crystals forming in the diesel are the problem but people say add paraffin to the diesel. Paraffin seems to be called kerosene as well but there are different grades (e.g. jet fuel c.f. heating oil).
Some people differentiate paraffin and paraffin wax Shocked

It's all so confusing Big Cry Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing...
Post #121888 6th Feb 2012 7:31pm
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ZeDefender



Member Since: 15 Sep 2011
Location: Munich
Posts: 4731

Germany 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Baltic Blue
Aha! Just checked back with the German forum and Aral Ultimate Diesel goes to -24 minimum and ADAC have tested it to -33.
Shell V-Power is only down to -20.
So if it gets any colder, I just have to drive a lot to get the Shell crap out of my tank and refill with the good stuff Thumbs Up Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing...
Post #121898 6th Feb 2012 7:44pm
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mick



Member Since: 08 Feb 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 2109

England 2010 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Rimini Red
Off Topic how long are you expecting these low temps to last my lad is off to Austria with school skiing on fri. I have heard its -36 with wind chill in places.
Post #121904 6th Feb 2012 8:05pm
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ZeDefender



Member Since: 15 Sep 2011
Location: Munich
Posts: 4731

Germany 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Baltic Blue
Here in Munich we are expecting a "warmer" spell over the next week of -15 at night and -5 during the day. However, as it warms up the breeze picks up and it seems colder Evil or Very Mad

Kitzbuhel, Mayrhofen etc. should be a few degrees warmer.

Good news is that the Austrian mountains often get quite sunny and the instructors are usually very careful with the kids.
Often the "exciting" temperatures you hear quoted are at night in the coldest, most miserable holes...

If your son layers up ("onion technology" they call it here) and is active he won't have problems. Just try to make sure he has a good hat (fleece is best), decent-sized goggles (not sun-glasses) and a neckroll (sort of a tube-scarf you can pull up for that "bandit-look"). Sorry if that sounds patronising but you wouldn't believe what some of the parents here send their kids out in Rolling Eyes

Thumbs Up

p.s. I'm still learning how to dress - normally I would wear a t-shirt and a fleece and be cold outside even with a coat. This year my wife forced me to smarten up a bit and wear a (thin) shirt under the fleece. It's amazing! I can practically walk around without a coat just because of one little cotton layer Thumbs Up Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing...
Post #121912 6th Feb 2012 8:25pm
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mick



Member Since: 08 Feb 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 2109

England 2010 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Rimini Red
ZeDefender wrote:
Here in Munich we are expecting a "warmer" spell over the next week of -15 at night and -5 during the day. However, as it warms up the breeze picks up and it seems colder Evil or Very Mad

Kitzbuhel, Mayrhofen etc. should be a few degrees warmer.

Good news is that the Austrian mountains often get quite sunny and the instructors are usually very careful with the kids.
Often the "exciting" temperatures you hear quoted are at night in the coldest, most miserable holes...

If your son layers up ("onion technology" they call it here) and is active he won't have problems. Just try to make sure he has a good hat (fleece is best), decent-sized goggles (not sun-glasses) and a neckroll (sort of a tube-scarf you can pull up for that "bandit-look"). Sorry if that sounds patronising but you wouldn't believe what some of the parents here send their kids out in Rolling Eyes

Thumbs Up

p.s. I'm still learning how to dress - normally I would wear a t-shirt and a fleece and be cold outside even with a coat. This year my wife forced me to smarten up a bit and wear a (thin) shirt under the fleece. It's amazing! I can practically walk around without a coat just because of one little cotton layer Thumbs Up


Thanks he has all the gear as he is a regular skier it's whether he uses it. Thumbs Up
Post #121931 6th Feb 2012 9:01pm
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ZeDefender



Member Since: 15 Sep 2011
Location: Munich
Posts: 4731

Germany 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Baltic Blue
Mine are the same - at 15 and 17 they wear what they want - the only control I have is not driving them Thumbs Up
Hope he has fun Smile Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing...
Post #121938 6th Feb 2012 9:12pm
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015

Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
ZeDefender wrote:
Aha! Just checked back with the German forum and Aral Ultimate Diesel goes to -24 minimum and ADAC have tested it to -33.
Shell V-Power is only down to -20.
So if it gets any colder, I just have to drive a lot to get the Shell crap out of my tank and refill with the good stuff Thumbs Up


Aral gets my vote. Last winter I was in Austria (Up the Stubai Glacier) and we were getting regular temperatures of -20ish without wind chill and the Defender started every morning without a problem.

Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #121943 6th Feb 2012 9:18pm
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party monkey



Member Since: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Oxon.
Posts: 1311

England 2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Cairns Blue
TheTechnobear wrote:
I got caught out here in southern spain (in the mountains) 2 days ago,
we hit -9 at night (for a couple of nights), 110 wouldnt move, probably waxed up...would idle at about 1k, but no more.
Eventually managed to get it into the sun, it warmed up, then would go, albeit with some initial misfiring.
My FL wouldnt even turnover.

Lived in switzerland for over 9 years, never a problem Smile

so i will now always park in the sun when its going to get cold, im assuming they dont bother using winter fuel here.


I'm reliably informed - by a mate who just left the Spanish oil industry.....

Spanish winter spec diesel.... -4 cloud and -10 CFPP for dedicated (single company) oil storage, or -12 CFPP for co-mingled (more than one company chucking stuff in same storage tank). In the North of Spain some companies marketing spec (not the law) is -14 CFPP.

All figures are worse case, so you would normally expect the product to perform a bit better. Jon - 110 td5 [sold]. Currently Defenderless.
Post #121960 6th Feb 2012 10:09pm
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party monkey



Member Since: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Oxon.
Posts: 1311

England 2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Cairns Blue
ZeDefender wrote:
That's where it all confuses me. Apparently paraffin crystals forming in the diesel are the problem but people say add paraffin to the diesel. Paraffin seems to be called kerosene as well but there are different grades (e.g. jet fuel c.f. heating oil).
Some people differentiate paraffin and paraffin wax Shocked

It's all so confusing Big Cry


'Paraffin' seems to be a long adopted marketing name (probably wrongly) for a clean burning premium Kerosene used indoors in lamps & stoves. As its a clean burning fuel, no flue is needed on the appliance. It's normally dyed Blue or pink/purple.... Boom Boom Boom Boom...... let you finish that one... Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green

'Kerosene' or 'Kero' is what people in the UK burn in their oil fired heating systems. This stuff is very pale yellow in colour but tends to be marked in some way (in UK it's an invisible tracer) to deter people from blending it into Diesel. It's not as clean burning and therefore requires to be burnt in a closed environment in an appliance with a flue.

Jet fuel is essentially Kerosene. I should know the exact differences given that part of what I do is sell this stuff for a living but simply it either meets the stringent Defence Standard or it doesn't Embarassed Embarassed

Paraffin waxes are left in diesel as it contributes to a better Cetane value. Kerosenes have solvent properties so can be added to diesel to dissolve the wax and improve the cloud and CFPP, hence Micks comment..... Parrafin or Kerosene would do the job perfectly but are both illegal to blend into diesel in the UK as road fuel as no duty would have been paid. Imagine this is fairly consistent across Europe. Adding a kerosene would depress the Cetane but in extreme cold, you just want the b*gger to start and run Smile

Never used an Anti-waxing product myself but there seems to be a few on the market. Wurth do one that makes claims of protection down to -30. Probably stick with the Aral diesel though if it's typically reaching those sort of levels already. Jon - 110 td5 [sold]. Currently Defenderless.
Post #121982 6th Feb 2012 11:36pm
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ZeDefender



Member Since: 15 Sep 2011
Location: Munich
Posts: 4731

Germany 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Baltic Blue
Many thanks - all understood Thumbs Up
Matt Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing...
Post #121983 6th Feb 2012 11:40pm
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CityDriver



Member Since: 27 Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 60

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
FG wrote:
CFPP in my neck of the woods -33 celsius, days like these not that hard to understand. Brrrr!

/FG


Smaland, nice! GF is from Stockholm, we sort of life between there, Amsterdam and London. Bought the Defender to bring back to Sweden one day. Was thinking of "winterproofing" it beforehand. Do you run pre-heating on it?
Post #121993 7th Feb 2012 7:29am
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bpman



Member Since: 21 May 2008
Location: Oslo
Posts: 8069

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
interesting thread - but still don't know how cold a defender* has to be before it refuses to start

(* well maintained defender)
Post #121997 7th Feb 2012 7:38am
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8580

United Kingdom 
Also, please remember as temperature drops, viscosity of oil increases and output from batteries decreases which will both make starting engines more difficult. Cold weather is notorious for finding batteries which are not in best state of health.



Brendan
Post #122001 7th Feb 2012 7:48am
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