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revd

Member Since: 20 Apr 2024
Location: England
Posts: 216

Lotus:
Eletre EV made in China, bit of a brute, but looks ok in metallic racing green, silly money though £90k +
Parent company also owns Volvo and Polestar

Only Norfolk built car is a 2 seater sports, the Emira with Toyota V6, grp body over extruded aluminium chassis/tub; the Elise/Exige production ceased a couple of years back.

6th Mar 2025 10:14pm

DSC-off

Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1462

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

With the Emira starting at £89,500, buying a new Lotus is no longer an attainable prospect for most people, especially if it's a second car for fun.

The Elise was just that, an attainable and fun sportscar.

I've no sympathy at all for car manufacturers moving their products upmarket, only to find no one is buying them anymore. It seems every Western brand has done this recently, abandoning their traditional market to make way for Chinese brands!

The production and engineering staff in Norfolk and their suppliers do have my full sympathy.

6th Mar 2025 10:38pm

Rashers

Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3589

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

That's why it looks like a Volvo! Good God it was ugly. £90K I would want it to look nice.

Lotus are a weird company. They have been owned by so many different companies. Every time a new one takes over, there is hope that they will invest and make it great again. The last CEO had vision, but apparently vision was not what the owners wanted and he exited stage left.

It is true that there has been an enormous amount of investment at Hethel (and also a satellite factory near the airport in Norwich). I have always assumed the 'profit' the company makes was on R&D for other companies rather than selling cars as I know they do or did a lot of work for other manufacturers.

In my opinion, the Elise was the last 'great' car that Lotus produced. I still think it's a lovely looking motor.

I would need to be desperate to get a job with Lotus. You will always be waiting for that hastily organised meeting by HR on a Friday afternoon*.

*usually two weeks before Christmas

6th Mar 2025 10:42pm

Rashers

Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3589

DSC-off wrote:
With the Emira starting at £89,500, buying a new Lotus is no longer an attainable prospect for most people, especially if it's a second car for fun.

The Elise was just that, an attainable and fun sportscar.

I've no sympathy at all for car manufacturers moving their products upmarket, only to find no one is buying them anymore. It seems every Western brand has done this recently, abandoning their traditional market to make way for Chinese brands!

The production and engineering staff in Norfolk and their suppliers do have my full sympathy.

Spot on

6th Mar 2025 10:43pm

Rashers

Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3589

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx20yw9e8yqo

It seems a pretty easy fix.

What is more interesting is if you read lower in the story, it says that Ineos Automotive lost more than £1.1billion in 2023

That’s half way towards a new stadium for Man Utd

13th Mar 2025 11:24am

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 861

Rashers wrote:
Chicken Drumstick wrote:
Viable is such a subjective and contentious word though... if low volume is not viable you wouldn't have companies like Caterham or Lotus either.

I have no idea how well or badly the Grenadier is selling, nor what Ineos' realistic targets are for the vehicle.

Ultimately it only needs to be profitable to be viable, world domination and record sales are not a requirement for this.

Lotus has been on its knees for years. There doesn't appear to be many months go by without talk of redundancies. They have just had another clear out. Most people who live in Norfolk will know someone who has been laid off by Lotus at some point or another.

Only this week, it was reported that Aston Martin has record losses and is also laying off staff. I'm not sure Aston Martin ever has made a profit?

These two marques have one thing in common. Wealthy owners. With Sir Jim's retro-chem business looking rocky, I don't think the Grenadier has that luxury?

Lotus would have been gone years ago if it hadn't been for foreign investment bank rolling the organisation. The same can be said for Aston Martin, but I have no idea who the previous owners were after David Brown. He made money building tractors, not cars. It was his tractor business that allowed Aston Martin to build cars.

Yet both of those companies are still here with very long track records. And there are lots of other low volume makers, Caterham who I mentioned earlier, Westfield, Ibex and lots and lots of others, in the UK and the World over.

13th Mar 2025 11:58am

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 861

DSC-off wrote:
pjm-84 wrote:
Ineos only sold 4 cars in February ........ 11 cars in January

Those are CAR registrations, if you add the Commercial vehicles it's still not great.
You've got to wonder how much the production halt affected those numbers and when vehicles started to arrive at the dealers again after the Recaro seats problem.

It will be interesting to see what the March figures are. Production is running, it's a new registration month and the last month before the new tax year, with all the tax hikes due in April.

Come to think of it, the rest of the year after April is going to be tough for the whole industry.

January, Cars 11, Commercial 25, Total 36
February, Cars 4, Commercial 22, Total 26

The numbers look low, but they halted production didn't. So it may be impacted by that, as these are registrations, not built or sold vehicles. If they have been selling from stock of pre-registered vehicles for instance.

I would also assume that in reality the UK market is fairly small for the model. North America and Australia likely have a much bigger share of the production. No idea if they are selling in other markets too as as the middle east, Asia or South America.

13th Mar 2025 12:02pm

AMBxx

Member Since: 24 Jul 2016
Location: York
Posts: 1048

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey

Rashers wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx20yw9e8yqo

It seems a pretty easy fix.

What is more interesting is if you read lower in the story, it says that Ineos Automotive lost more than £1.1billion in 2023

That’s half way towards a new stadium for Man Utd

Does beg the question of what's the best way to lose a fortune - football club or car manufacturer.
Makes a change from drink and loose women

13th Mar 2025 12:33pm

Rashers

Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3589

Chicken Drumstick wrote:

Yet both of those companies are still here with very long track records. And there are lots of other low volume makers, Caterham who I mentioned earlier, Westfield, Ibex and lots and lots of others, in the UK and the World over.

Couldn’t agree more and yes Lotus is still here and still churning cars out - but I am just telling you what the reality of the situation is if you live near Hethel. Redundancies are not unknown and if I am honest, not really a surprise when they are announced. They seem to have a an amazing PR department for churning out good news stories.

Every company that buys Lotus has great plans and somehow they always get bored and end up selling. As I said previously, they, at least used to, do a lot of R&D for other manufacturers and I expect that is quite profitable.

I honestly didn’t know they were producing cars in China. That was a suprise but under the current owners, it’s not surprising. What also wouldn’t be surprising is if production is moved out of the UK.

It will be a dark day if or when Lotus ever go to the wall or end up moving all of their production to China or elsewhere - especially for the county. I for one would be very sad.

13th Mar 2025 12:50pm

Rashers

Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3589

AMBxx wrote:
Rashers wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx20yw9e8yqo

It seems a pretty easy fix.

What is more interesting is if you read lower in the story, it says that Ineos Automotive lost more than £1.1billion in 2023

That’s half way towards a new stadium for Man Utd

Does beg the question of what's the best way to lose a fortune - football club or car manufacturer.
Makes a change from drink and loose women

Owning a Defender?

13th Mar 2025 12:54pm

lightning

Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 3010

My 2022 Defender Commercial is still worth 80% of what l paid for it.

And that's an actual dealer offer to buy for cash, not a part exchange price or prediction of what l could sell it privately for.

23rd Mar 2025 4:37pm

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