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steam_simon



Member Since: 24 Sep 2022
Location: London
Posts: 88
 
What do the French do with their new Defender in Winter?
Perhaps LR fit different tyres in France, but none of the standard fit tyres available for a new LR Defender in UK will be legal in certain parts of France during the winter. If you are in any mountainous area (Alps, Central Massif, Pyrenees) then by law you are required to have 3PMSF rated tyres OR you can carry chains.

Bit of an issue I'd have thought for a £70,000 new car?
Post #1053349 29th Nov 2024 5:05pm
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nebc100



Member Since: 07 Nov 2023
Location: Altlinster
Posts: 96
Luxembourg 
Same in Germany!!

Solution… buy a second set or tires/rims that are 3PMSF rated.

They are not difficult to find!!
Post #1053416 30th Nov 2024 7:54am
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ruben



Member Since: 04 Feb 2021
Location: ASTURIAS
Posts: 195
Spain 
I don't understand the criticism, I don't know of any car that comes out of the factory with winter tires or chains in the trunk... are you saying that in France if you buy a new Renault, for example, it comes with winter tires 3PMSF?😵‍💫 Defender 110 SE I6 D250 23MY
ExDiscovery 3 TDV6 SE
Post #1053421 30th Nov 2024 9:14am
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Modder



Member Since: 29 Nov 2024
Location: Wuustwezel
Posts: 12
Belgium 
I decided for extra set of wheels and tyres to swap for the winters, with AT 3PMFS tyres
Post #1053423 30th Nov 2024 9:34am
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steam_simon



Member Since: 24 Sep 2022
Location: London
Posts: 88
 
ruben wrote:
I don't understand the criticism, I don't know of any car that comes out of the factory with winter tires or chains in the trunk... are you saying that in France if you buy a new Renault, for example, it comes with winter tires 3PMSF?😵‍💫


The confusion is that people conflate "Winter Tyres" with "3PMSF Tyres".

Many "All Season" tyres (and others) are now 3PMSF. 3PMSF rating does not mean it is a specific winter tyre. It's a rating that states that the tyres will perform well on snow and ice. A "Winter Tyre" is a specific type of tyre (often with softer rubber) that will perform on snow and ice, but is pretty useless in summer as the softer rubber will wear very quickly.
Post #1053440 30th Nov 2024 11:06am
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steam_simon



Member Since: 24 Sep 2022
Location: London
Posts: 88
 
Modder wrote:
I decided for extra set of wheels and tyres to swap for the winters, with AT 3PMFS tyres


Yes, I've done the same! But the fact that LR do not offer a factory fit 3PMSF tyre irks me. As you can probably tell! Very Happy
Post #1053443 30th Nov 2024 11:08am
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Modder



Member Since: 29 Nov 2024
Location: Wuustwezel
Posts: 12
Belgium 
Totally agree, and also the tire options for 19 inch rims are very limited (as shown with other topics here). When is spoke to my sales person he was even suprised that this was an issue with the 19 inch rims. Just not knowing what they sell in a way.
Post #1053446 30th Nov 2024 11:32am
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lrFFM



Member Since: 28 Sep 2017
Location: Frankfurt
Posts: 64
Germany 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
3PMSF doesn’t necessarily mean that the tyre performs well in snow and ice. It just means that it meets the minimum requirement of performing 10% better than the standard reference tyre manufactured by Michelin.

Here is a good article on the topic:

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear...ing-safer/
Post #1053449 30th Nov 2024 11:45am
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Crazymind



Member Since: 11 Jun 2024
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 145
United Kingdom 
I would be expecting delivery with all season tyres.
This is standard among 4x4 across Europe.
Specific option can be discussed with the dealer. Or just buy it yourself.
I am on my 3rd set in 10k miles Smile

Last edited by Crazymind on 30th Nov 2024 2:37pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #1053460 30th Nov 2024 2:36pm
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steam_simon



Member Since: 24 Sep 2022
Location: London
Posts: 88
 
lrFFM wrote:
3PMSF doesn’t necessarily mean that the tyre performs well in snow and ice. It just means that it meets the minimum requirement of performing 10% better than the standard reference tyre manufactured by Michelin.

Here is a good article on the topic:

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear...ing-safer/


The article states "accelerates" at least 10% better then the reference tyre - not "performing 10% better". For me I'm more interested in grip - which clearly is related to ability to accelerate and brake but I'd have thought that a tyre that can accelerate 10% faster would have a lot more grip percentage-wise.

I've looked at several tyre reviews and the 3PMSF AT tyres I'm buying came out significantly better that any other "All Season" tyre and only slightly less than a specific winter rated tyre on snow and ice. In any event it gives me peace of mind - and I'm legal in the French Alps and Germany. Happy Days!
Post #1053461 30th Nov 2024 2:37pm
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SteveG



Member Since: 29 Nov 2011
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 660
2005 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Belize Green
steam_simon wrote:
, but is pretty useless in summer as the softer rubber will wear very quickly.


They don’t - they wear marginally more, but not dramatically so.
Post #1053477 30th Nov 2024 4:34pm
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TexasRover



Member Since: 24 Nov 2022
Location: Paris
Posts: 1064
France 2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Chawton White
I lived in Norway and there you need to change your summer tires for winter tires and back again to summer tires, because both types have specific qualities which can not be combined into a single 'multi use' tire, at least not according to the Norwegians.

Having had both studded and non-studded winter tires I can tell you the studded tires give you halve a chance on ice, but if you are going too fast or don't use the correct driving technique you are screwed. You have to drive for winter conditions and observation, speed and anticipation is everything.

My Discovery 4 has 3PMSF (Three Peak Mountain Snow Flake) tires for the alps, but frankly I have no hope of this actually making a huge difference other than that you need them to drive there. Looking at the tires they are nothing like my Norwegian winter tires at the time, you could move the sipes by hand on those, that's how soft they are!
Post #1053484 30th Nov 2024 5:59pm
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Nuclear Nick



Member Since: 21 Aug 2021
Location: Southwest
Posts: 284
United Kingdom 
steam_simon wrote:
lrFFM wrote:
3PMSF doesn’t necessarily mean that the tyre performs well in snow and ice. It just means that it meets the minimum requirement of performing 10% better than the standard reference tyre manufactured by Michelin.

Here is a good article on the topic:

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear...ing-safer/


The article states "accelerates" at least 10% better then the reference tyre - not "performing 10% better". For me I'm more interested in grip - which clearly is related to ability to accelerate and brake but I'd have thought that a tyre that can accelerate 10% faster would have a lot more grip percentage-wise.

I've looked at several tyre reviews and the 3PMSF AT tyres I'm buying came out significantly better that any other "All Season" tyre and only slightly less than a specific winter rated tyre on snow and ice. In any event it gives me peace of mind - and I'm legal in the French Alps and Germany. Happy Days!


Out of interest, what tyres are you getting? 23.5MY 90 V8 Carpathian grey
Post #1053508 30th Nov 2024 10:00pm
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steam_simon



Member Since: 24 Sep 2022
Location: London
Posts: 88
 
I'm limited (as has previously been referred to) by the fact I have 19" wheels.

They are General Grabber AT3 Tyres. 255/65/19.
Post #1053541 1st Dec 2024 10:12am
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nebc100



Member Since: 07 Nov 2023
Location: Altlinster
Posts: 96
Luxembourg 
They are good!!

I have them on my D5 and plan to get them on my Defender also!!
Post #1053548 1st Dec 2024 10:40am
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