 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > More DC100 bashing... |
 
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| H1Tad Member Since: 20 Jul 2024 Location: Maine Posts: 126  
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I hate to bring LR conversations back to my passion vehicle but I think the L663 situation is exactly what happened when the H2 was released by GM. The H1 guys baulked and said "thats not a real offroad heavy duty truck that can ford 60" of water! It doesn't even have beadlocks from the factory! *harumphharumphharumph*" - and we watched while the H2 (and H3) dominated sales and market share while we sat back and stewed in our animosity and utterly unjustified contempt.
Sure the H2 wasn't what we had wanted (the H1 Alpha was) but given the public's radical mood swings with regards to the H2, combined with hindsight, GM was entirely correct in the direction they went with it, and now they are welcomed in our littler Hummer community at events, trail rides, etc. On the used market, the H2's have actually rebounded (for good condition ones, which is tough). Given how well the new Defender has performed in the market, I think LR knows it hit a home run with it. Whether or not an updated or more refined classic Rover/Defender would have outperformed it - we'll sadly never know. At least there's the Grenadier. (Dear Sir Ratcliffe, please respond to the daily letters I write to you asking you to resurrected the H1 like you did the classic Defender) 2022 Defender 110 SE P400 Tasman Blue Expedition and Cold weather package 2003 Hummer H1 P400 Firehouse Red 2008 Toyota FJ Cruiser |
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28th Nov 2024 4:55pm |
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| lightning Member Since: 23 Apr 2009 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2808 
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lt depends on what you mean by "far nicer" |
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28th Nov 2024 5:43pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17418 
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Thank you for the best laugh of the day!   |
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28th Nov 2024 6:17pm |
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| LR Nuts Member Since: 10 Aug 2022 Location: UK Posts: 1131 
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I'm sure the Series boy said the same about the Puma.
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28th Nov 2024 6:29pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
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I don't dislike the new Defender, but it is SO FAR from a traditional Land Rover and seems to share no design concepts at all with them. It is a Discovery plain and simple. Even the sales figures back this up, where when the Pretender launched, it completely decimated and killed Disco 5 sales, to the point JLR are now claiming they need to rebrand and re-position "Discovery". As I say, I'm not knocking the new model, as a vehicle it is fine. But it'll never be a true Defender in terms of following the linage of the original model. All you need do is look at Jeep, Suzuki, Mercedes and many others to see how to use heritage and maintain a models distinctiveness. JLR continually demonstrate they have no interest in heritage however, unless it is for a cheap marketing trick. Just look at the pig swell hash they are doing with the Jaguar name at the moment. Land Rover's used to be very affordable work vehicles, they are no longer this. |
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28th Nov 2024 9:15pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
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This is the big magic trick though.... the media and JLR may proclaim this. But you need to look into the figures more. The new Defender has totally killed Disco 5 sales globally. And also impacted RRS sales, which are also down. Yes the new Defender has sold, but it has done so by stealing sales from other JLR models. The proclaimed "success" is somewhat tinted and sour in reality. Again, I'm not hating on the new Defender... I can see a 2nd hand one replacing my p38 Range Rover at some point. But that's the problem. I know quite a lot of people that have got new Defenders, nearly all of them already had a new/newish JLR product. Not a single one of them sold a traditional Defender to buy the new one, they all traded in Range Rovers and Discos! Our friend lighting here has to be a complete rarity in the fact they did sell a proper Defender to buy the new one. All JLR have really done is rape the name of Defender as a marketing ploy to sell more "Discovery's". To this end it has worked well, especially in the USA, where you guys never really had chance to buy a proper traditional Defender. And a reputation for unreliability has impacted anything with the Discovery name on (hence you guys ended up with LR3 and LR3 instead of Discovery...), Here in the UK the traditional Defender was not a rarity, the were still very popular farm and work trucks, even past the 2016 end of production. My Uncle bought a basic pick up 90 in 2012 for £17,000 brand new for the farm. An inflation calculator tells me I should be able to buy a similar 90 today for just under £24,000 BUT wait....... the cheapest Defender today is £57,400 for a commercial according to the LR website. And there is nothing like a pickup even in the line up. Personally my biggest complaint is the new model shares nothing with the old model. Not a single design trait survived, they don't look like Defenders. In fact with a different badge on, nobody would ever guess they are meant to be related. Not saying the look bad, they don't. But where are the flat wing tops? Slatted grill? Round headlights? Flat sided panels, separate front bumper? It's all gone. And none of this is legislation led, as other car makers manage to do all of these things. |
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28th Nov 2024 9:33pm |
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| ruben Member Since: 04 Feb 2021 Location: ASTURIAS Posts: 201 
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No, I think It only Grenadier makes it and this a car, in my opinion, doomed to failure sooner rather than late!!..And I clarify, I meant to say that those who say that it is not a new Discovery are right, and so are those who say that it is not a true Defender, which it is not either, what it really is, I believe, is the car those who had a previous discovery would like to have now... without wanting to have an old car... and it fully meets that and it is a beautiful and great car... much better than the original generation D3 and the rehash D4. Defender 110 SE I6 D250 23MY
ExDiscovery 3 TDV6 SE Last edited by ruben on 28th Nov 2024 10:45pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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28th Nov 2024 10:31pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17418
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Yup. Every new engine, every new revision, coil springs, the plastic grill . Every time it was the end of the brand, and the end of the world! Some things never change. Then came 2016 and it WAS the end of the world! |
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28th Nov 2024 10:38pm |
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| ruben Member Since: 04 Feb 2021 Location: ASTURIAS Posts: 201
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Sorry, I forgot to add “Discovery” I wanted to say “the same concept D3/D4” even though it is not, when I say concept I mean directed, in general, to the same type of client. IMHO Defender 110 SE I6 D250 23MY ExDiscovery 3 TDV6 SE |
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28th Nov 2024 10:59pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17418
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Oh, it was your apparent assertion that the concept of the 2020 Defender was the same as that of the 2016 version that had me laughing.
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28th Nov 2024 11:04pm |
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| ruben Member Since: 04 Feb 2021 Location: ASTURIAS Posts: 201
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I know it! 👍🏼👍🏼 Defender 110 SE I6 D250 23MY
ExDiscovery 3 TDV6 SE |
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28th Nov 2024 11:07pm |
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| Moo Member Since: 01 Oct 2021 Location: UK Posts: 1388 
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Well, as a previous D3 and D4 owner and recent Defender owner, I don't care what anyone says, the Defender isn't a Discovery replacement in functionality.
Before going back to a D4 I looked at a new D5 and Defender 130. My criteria was practicality, functionality and usability. At the end of the day the D4 won. Poncing around in a Defender or any other flash car to show of success of status has never been me. It might not be for everyone, but it works for me and is pretty much as capable as a Defender for what I need. Adding CarPlay and a heated steering wheel it will give me everything I used on my Defender and the driving experience isn't a million miles off a Defender either. Eiger Grey MY23 D250 SE with bits. Known as Noddy. |
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28th Nov 2024 11:14pm |
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| haymeister Member Since: 24 May 2021 Location: Saitama Posts: 266 
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Let's be real... for a workhorse vehicle/farmers, the modern pick up trucks are objectively hands down better at most of the criteria listed above, at half the price. Many can tow 3.5 tonnes nowadays...
I just don't want to be seen driving in one!  22MY Defender 110 D300 S in Pangea Green and Contrast White Roof
IG defender_japan "Hulk san" |
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29th Nov 2024 3:42am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829  
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Because the original remit for the first Disco was a vehicle that was as capable (more capable) than a Defender, but with some extra creature comforts and (far) better road manners but without reaching the price point or levels of luxury offered by the Range Rover. It was also entirely unmodifiable in the sense that it wouldn’t offer all the variants a Defender could, as it wasn’t its purpose. So no rag top, no cherry picker, no military variant, no tow truck, no pizza oven, no flatbed, no pick up, no fire truck, no gin bar, etc etc. It was a super tough, super capable workhorse, used mainly (but not exclusively) on the road. It towed, it mile crunched, it overlanded, it took kids to school, all with better seats, and AC which worked, and a radio you could actually listen to. And all of this with a look that was robust, purposeful and which kept a lot of the Defender/LR DNA. Unmistakably so. And it did all this successfully. Really successfully. And this continued in the D2, D3, D4. And then the D5 arrived, and as with everything that Gerry touches, it threw a lot of what I mentioned above, out. Styling changed, price point changed, purpose changed. It was no longer the Disco everyone loved, most notably the outstanding D4. So why do I say that the new Defender is actually a Disco 6? Because it recaptures almost all the elements of the D1-D4 that I mentioned above, whilst also completely ignoring the <2016 Defender’s ability to be adapted, modified and changed, whether at a personal or commercial level. It does everything a capable off roader should, with slightly more comfort and luxury, but NOT to the degree of the Range Rover. It will rarely be off roaded or overlanded, yet it can be, it will mainly be used on road. It will tow, mile crunch and deliver kids to school. It does everything a Disco 4 does/did. And it bares no physical or practical resemblance to the <2016 Defender, it is far far closer - even in look and shape, to a Discovery. And certainly in look and purpose. When I see a new Defender cherry picker variant lined up next to an overlander, a tow truck, an open top WMIK, a flat bed, a fire truck, a coffee van, I stand to be corrected. But whilst it continues to do D4 things with aplomb, I’ll maintain it is the logical successor to the Disco than Defender. Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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29th Nov 2024 8:17am |
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