 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > All season vs All terrain tyres |
 
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| Moo Member Since: 01 Oct 2021 Location: UK Posts: 1305  
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Four? No spare?
Anyway, interested to see the finished set up.  Eiger Grey MY23 D250 SE with bits. Known as Noddy.Last edited by Moo on 9th Oct 2024 9:52pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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9th Oct 2024 9:41pm |
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| Crazymind Member Since: 11 Jun 2024 Location: Glasgow Posts: 103 
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I’ll post some photos when ready!
No spare, didn’t even think about it 😂. I’ll use the 20” alloy… |
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9th Oct 2024 9:47pm |
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| Trafask2024 Member Since: 21 Aug 2024 Location: London Posts: 11
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Really useful, thanks! |
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10th Oct 2024 7:21am |
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| DaveCNB Member Since: 15 Mar 2022 Location: So. Cal Posts: 61 
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(Oops, posted twice somehow and couldn't figure out how to delete, see next post for what I meant to say) --------------------------------
"Chonky" 2024 Defender 110 X-Dynamic SE P400, Pangea Green, Air Suspension, Off Road Pack, Urban Pack (exposed recovery points), Factory Side Steps Last edited by DaveCNB on 11th Oct 2024 7:33am. Edited 1 time in total |
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11th Oct 2024 7:19am |
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| DaveCNB Member Since: 15 Mar 2022 Location: So. Cal Posts: 61
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Just a single data point to add to the discussion. 2022 D110 P400, air suspension, basic factory off road package w/ factory rear LSD and 20" LR Factory option Wrangler "AT" tires.
These worked great on mild-moderate CA off road trails and fire roads in the Sierras, loose, sandy desert roads out at Joshua Tree as well as minor rock crawling obstacles. I easily kept up and kept pace with friends in fully lifted/rigged 35" tire Rubicons who had aired down to less than 15 PSI. I didn't bother to air down from 48/50 PSI at all and I think I was still way more comfortable across washboards on the LR Air suspension than they were lol. 2 winter ski seasons in the Eastern Sierras and no issues at all on plowed and unplowed roads, even in 12-18" fresh snow over ice on unplowed roads in Mammoth Lakes CA. LR's smarty pants traction control systems make the reputedly mediocre Wrangle AT factory option tires totally workable from my experience. Some of the other cars in our group--Land Cruisers, 4Runners TRD Pro's, Tacomas all with better tires like Falkens and BFG KO2's had more trouble in the snow than we did actually. Also, not that it rains a whole lot here in So Cal, but when it does, folks drive like absolute morons. The seldom wetted roads are slick (from all the accumulated oils that come to the surface w/ the new rains) and significant water accumulation from poor drainage. I did not experience any hydroplaning at all with this setup at highway speeds > 70 mph or even when we went intentionally hunting for deep undrained puddles and standing water to....sploosh for fun. Much of that I'm sure is due to the fact that the car is so dammed massive/heavy. Tracking, handling, braking in the wet was fine. YMMV but I think that if you're sensible and drive within your limits, even the factory Wrangle AT tires combined w/ LR's fantastic traction control/terrain response computer wizardry will take you pretty far. -------------------------------- "Chonky" 2024 Defender 110 X-Dynamic SE P400, Pangea Green, Air Suspension, Off Road Pack, Urban Pack (exposed recovery points), Factory Side Steps |
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11th Oct 2024 7:21am |
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| steam_simon Member Since: 24 Sep 2022 Location: London Posts: 82 
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The current issue I have is that none of the tyres currently available as LR tyres (Continental/Pirelli/Goodyear AT) have the 3PMSF rating. They’re all M&S but that’s no longer acceptable as 3PMSF is now a legal requirement in most Alpine Countries and I’ve heard the French and Austrians are enforcing this more rigorously from 2025.
If you’ve 19” rims then the only available tyre is General Grabber AT. Anyone got experience of these? There’s a lot more choice if you have 18” or 20” rims….. |
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12th Oct 2024 9:14am |
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| Crazymind Member Since: 11 Jun 2024 Location: Glasgow Posts: 103
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In theory I have found more for 18” and 20”. However availability in Europe is zero.
Of the 5 best reviewed AT 3 peaks tyres I have found availability for BF Goodrich and Yokohama only in UK. I think it’s difficult to market 3 peaks AT tyres in Europe more than it is in The rest of the World. 3 peaks mandatory in Europe from November to March (at least on motorway). Many years ago we were told we needed winter tyres and we had to buy 2 sets of wheels as well. Then the appearance of the all weather tyres got us thinking this was the solution. I was thinking as well all seasons are 3 peaks rated. Pirelli Zero all season LR marked on my defender are not 3 peaks rated! Just discovered this a few days ago… didn’t even think of checking… before reading this tread. Now I a want to try for the winter the Geolander 3 peaks rated. Need them at least to drive to the Alps this winter… and some mild off roading in the Highlands… |
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12th Oct 2024 9:31am |
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| steam_simon Member Since: 24 Sep 2022 Location: London Posts: 82
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In fact the ONLY 3PMSF rated tyre for 19" rims that are not specific winter tyres appears to be the General Grabber AT.
There are Winter Tyres available that are 3PMSF in the 19" rim, but then I'd have to have 3 sets of wheels 
I guess it's going to be General Grabber AT for the Alps in Winter and off-road and the Continentals the Defender came with for summer. My wife won't let me buy anymore wheels. She's the sensible one in the family.  |
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12th Oct 2024 10:03am |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3223 
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Your wife won’t let you buy any more wheels? You need to act like a real man and get them delivered to work and then hide them away when she’s not looking. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm. |
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12th Oct 2024 10:07am |
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| Landy240 Member Since: 22 Jul 2024 Location: Merseyside Posts: 6
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I think France need 3PMSF tyres but not all alpine countries. We are driving to the Austrian alps in Feb and have the standard Pirellis. The Austrian requirements are for 'winter tyres' and they include those marked with M&S in this definition (as the Pirellis are) What is also interesting is that they appear only to require winter tyres in 'wintery conditions' which they define as the road being covered in snow, ice or sludge - and in said wintery conditions you can actually drive in dedicated summer tyres as long as you use chains. It is a similar situation in Italy. Sometimes we rent a car in Milan and drive up to the Brenta Dolomites. Pretty much every hire car in Italy is on summers for obvious reasons - but if you let them know you are driving to the mountains they will give you a set of chains. Perhaps France have a similar rule? I don't know as we never ski in France. Here are the rules for Austria anyway https://www.oesterreich.gv.at/en/themen/mo...63100.html |
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14th Oct 2024 6:36am |
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| Landy240 Member Since: 22 Jul 2024 Location: Merseyside Posts: 6
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Hi - I'm replying to you directly as hopefully you will be notified before you go out and buy a new set of tyres. As in the reply to Simon above, it is not as simple as all Alpine countries needing 3 peaks. It's not a bad thing to have them but they are not required everywhere & all the time. Enjoy the drive! |
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14th Oct 2024 6:42am |
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| steam_simon Member Since: 24 Sep 2022 Location: London Posts: 82
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Landy240 is right regarding Austria - you only need M&S. My bad. But for France you do need 3PMSF or carry snowchains from 1st November. When driving to the Alps I always carry snowchains but they are a slight faff to put on, and as I have to replace my AT tyres anyway then it makes sense to change to a 3PMSF labelled set.
Whether LR will change their standard tyres to ones with a 3PMSF label remains to be seen. But currently it appears a new Defender will not be legal in the French Alps, Corsica and Massif Central unless chains are carried in winter. Details here (French) - http://www.securite-routiere.gouv.fr/chacu...e/nouveaux |
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14th Oct 2024 9:00am |
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| Crazymind Member Since: 11 Jun 2024 Location: Glasgow Posts: 103
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It’s not just the 3 peaks. m+S don’t perform very well in snow unless it soft and “fresh”. AT tyres on frozen snow don’t do much. 3 peaks are better with below zero temperatures.
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14th Oct 2024 10:18am |
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| cyberhusky Member Since: 09 Feb 2021 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 274 
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In Luxembourg M&S tyres are enough in winter conditions. I do use Toyo Open Country A/T tyres (the brans used on Paris Dakar races) with the M&S symbol. I drove the Tunnel du Parpaillon trail in the French Maritime Alps 2 times with these tyres with my Defender fully loaded. I drove about 50000 km with one set of tyres. No problems at all.
Though I could never really tried the Toyo tyres on snow as snow was only 3 days here in Luxembourg last winter. In Germany no other tyres than 3PMSF are allowed in winter conditions. 22MY Defender 110 (actual) | 10MY Freelander 2 (history) | 15MY Discovery Sport HSE (history) |
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15th Oct 2024 8:46am |
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