 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Motor cranks but won't start - does it have an immobilizer? |
 
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 516  
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I'm going to suggest that you drop the steering wheel column covers off and check around the ignition switch for a transponder or whatever the thing that reads the chip is called..if there isn't one there then it doesn't have an immobiliser..
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7th Sep 2024 3:34pm |
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| Esben Kold Member Since: 14 Oct 2023 Location: Horsens Posts: 21  
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Hi, will it keep turning over until you release the key from the starting position?
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8th Sep 2024 8:10am |
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| mrodey Member Since: 18 May 2023 Location: Svedala Posts: 30  
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Correct, it just cranks and cranks and cranks
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8th Sep 2024 9:17am |
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| mrodey Member Since: 18 May 2023 Location: Svedala Posts: 30
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 Click image to enlarge To add more to the story, the mechanics also rebuilt the starter, and it was after that the battery died overnight. I can confirm it’s getting power to the glow plugs but no power to the fuel pump it seems. I tried shunting pin 3&4 on the plug for the speedometer cluster for a workaround on the immobilizer but that did nothing. All fuses and relays seem fine. I was thinking the ignition switch as it’s been behaving weird in the past where it would not turn over at all in high temps (I’m in the Middle East). Could a faulty ignition switch allow it to crank but not get fuel? It does have an AS10 immobilizer installed but myself or the previous owner has a FOB more ever needed one. And someone did some funky wiring on the ignition switch as seen in the photo below. The shop checked the fault codes and nothing came up. Last edited by mrodey on 8th Sep 2024 9:39am. Edited 1 time in total |
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8th Sep 2024 9:22am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20382
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If the battery died by itself that is parasitic current drain, of which means there is a fault drawing sone current when at rest and not in use.
That needs tracking down by tests or isolating circuits, that will in turn likely lead to the culprit of the fault you are encountering. It is not guaranteed but possible, there should not be any drain on the battery at rest enough to drain it. If the battery is really old it could possibly do with replacing, but all the same there should not be drain on it. It could be the VCV, or fuel pump but that is not that common, the VCV is cheap to try to change relatively, but has capability to cut the engine out completely. Has the fuel filter been changed and not filled prior to refitting a new one with diesel?, that could also be a factor that there is an airlock in the fuel line that needs purging. Puma’s will be so and so’s if there is air in the fuel line, and the above is how that can be accidentally achieved if not done when changing the fuel filter. (It also had a bayonet fitting). $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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8th Sep 2024 9:38am |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4210 
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A failed crank sensor will result in turning over but no start. I don't know how close it is to the starter, but possible it would have been disturbed, damaged. Youcan test that with a suitable scan tool thatcan read the output. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
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8th Sep 2024 9:41am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20382
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There is that too, that would likely produce a DTC for it I’d have thought but you never know. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
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8th Sep 2024 9:47am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17391 
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If it has an immobilizer and it is working correctly the engine won't crank, so it is unlikely to be that. I don't understand your comment about power to the fuel pump since the 2.4 Defender only has a mechanical pump. It would be useful to get some meaningful diagnostic data, in particular fuel rail pressure when cranking.
It is most likely that the ECM simply isn't firing the injectors and there are several things that could cause this, the most likely being a failed crankshaft position sensor or a failed camshaft position sensor. Both sensors must be working for the engine to start. Butchered wiring is never a good sign since you have no idea what has been done nor why, and wiring of that standard is always cause for concern. |
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8th Sep 2024 10:37am |
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| mrodey Member Since: 18 May 2023 Location: Svedala Posts: 30
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Thanks for all the replies. This is the worst time for this to happen as I'm supposed to ship this car back to Europe in a few days and it has to be drivable for inspection before leaving Qatar.
Crank/cam sensor, I'll have the shop check. Maybe when changing the starter they messed that up? I don't get the shops comment on the fuel pump either. I know TD5s well so I assumed the 2.4 had an in-tank fuel pump but it sounds like this is not the case from what you say. The battery dying is an odd one as it's 2 months old. In fact I've never had a problem with this Defender until now really. Being in the Middle East, the heat plays havoc on the electrical system. Wish I had my nanocom here in Qatar. The shop only has a more generic reader. I'll pop one of the fuel rails off tonight to see if it's getting fuel and have check the cam/crank sensor as well to limit that option. So it sounds like I should rule out the immobilizer then since it cranks. |
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8th Sep 2024 10:54am |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4210
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There is no DTC. You have to read the output voltage.. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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8th Sep 2024 11:11am |
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| mrodey Member Since: 18 May 2023 Location: Svedala Posts: 30
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Out of curiosity, could a bad ignition switch cause the motor to turn over but not fire up? I've had some issues of when the car gets hot after driving it won't turn over at all (all other systems fine) until it cools down. The shop said they have seen bad ignition switches cause that non-starting behavior in the past.
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8th Sep 2024 11:29am |
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| mrodey Member Since: 18 May 2023 Location: Svedala Posts: 30
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Just returned from the shop and spent a few hours there with the mechanics. They took one of the pipes off the common rail and there was no fuel coming out... so now I'm really stumped. How did this go from a simple starter rebuild to now there being no fuel. I checked the rear fuel filter and it was filled. Maybe air in the system so air locked but how???
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8th Sep 2024 4:59pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20382
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Fuel filter maybe filled now, but it might not have been if a new one was fitted, but if it hasn’t been touched then there maybe an air leak. Though a diesel leak might be similar. If there is any?
Unless someone has taken it off, with the idea of cleaning out then realised it wasn’t so easy as that and they put it back empty. Thus leaving an air lock. Personally I would only fit a pre-filled with diesel new one, then fit it purely due to the fact they can be a devil if there is air in the fuel lines to purge. They can be a pig to purge, but I think there is a procedure for it via the bleed valve in the engine bay. There is info on this in the WSM I believe to purge air from the system. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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8th Sep 2024 6:55pm |
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| mrodey Member Since: 18 May 2023 Location: Svedala Posts: 30
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Fuel filter was just changed 6 months ago. I still can't figure out how a starter rebuild could mess up something in the fuel system. Maybe the VCV went bad at the same moment as the mechanics rebuilt the starter but the probability of that is almost zero.
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9th Sep 2024 3:55am |
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