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Silb



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 9

Germany 
Regarding disadvantages of Start/Stop two things come to my mind;
- Oil Pressure: It takes some time for the pump to build oil pressure when starting the engine, so through the additional starts the engine is running longer on low oil pressure.
- Additional stress on the timing chain (I guess it can be addressed through proper sizing of the chain and use of quality components, not really the case with the early Ingeniums Wink )
Post #1044736 4th Sep 2024 5:56am
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revd



Member Since: 20 Apr 2024
Location: England
Posts: 101

United Kingdom 
Critically no oil pressure means the loss of the oil film on the crank journals and big ends every time stop-start is used resulting in metal-metal contact
Post #1044738 4th Sep 2024 6:15am
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lightning



Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2690

United Kingdom 
l don't use the stop/start. l don't like it and also think it's not good for the engine.
Post #1044742 4th Sep 2024 6:48am
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lightning



Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2690

United Kingdom 
revd wrote:
lightning wrote:
Mine has done 15,000 miles of mainly short journeys. Although as l said, several short journeys every day so the engine stays hot.
lt does some longer journeys as well.

Anyhow, after reading about this engine failure l checked mine and it's like new inside with no deposits at all.

My old Defender TD5 had 90,000 miles of similar use. l had the cylinder head cover off a couple of times to change the injector harness and again, it was perfectly clean inside with no deposits at all. The oil was changed every 6,000 miles.


Head off or just the rocker cover?


On the new Defender? Just put a probe with a camera in via the oil filler.
Post #1044743 4th Sep 2024 6:52am
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ruben



Member Since: 04 Feb 2021
Location: ASTURIAS
Posts: 153

Spain 
Silb wrote:
Regarding disadvantages of Start/Stop two things come to my mind;
- Oil Pressure: It takes some time for the pump to build oil pressure when starting the engine, so through the additional starts the engine is running longer on low oil pressure.
- Additional stress on the timing chain (I guess it can be addressed through proper sizing of the chain and use of quality components, not really the case with the early Ingeniums Wink )

Hello, with my little criteria I think 2 things about the use of the S / S,
1. - that the lack of pressure in the oil pump seems insignificant in an engine that has already been running and therefore has its lubrication ducts full, I have already said that the car when it is cold, at least mine, does not activate the S / S system.
2. - that the distribution chain does not have to make any additional over effort, it simply does its job which compensates for the moments when it is stopped thanks to the S / S system.

... and in any case you always have to value the moments in which the engine saves hours of operation and fuel ... I am not an immobilist in my life, I USE IT CONTINUOUSLY AND LET THE CAR MANAGE IT. Wink Defender 110 SE I6 D 23MY
Post #1044747 4th Sep 2024 7:08am
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XplusYplusZ



Member Since: 16 Aug 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 476

Hypothetically, if a Def never did more than 10 miles a trip for 21k miles, could DPF Regen diesel dilution cause the thickening of the oil like this?

FACT: We know that the owner ignored at least one service warning - if they haven't had it done in 3 years. So too could they have ignored the oil change warning due to dilution.

You could easily imagine a situation where the RR was used for longer journeys and at the weekends. So the poor Def may only ever have been used for short trips, cold to cold - maybe school runs or trips to the shops down the road..

At "just over 3 years old" ~ 40months, 21000 miles, 365 days, that's 18 miles a day. If split into 2 trips = 9 miles each.. sounds like someone nipping to the nearest town a couple of times a day.

In theory, the engine should request an oil change when dilution gets risky (6-7%?), but we already know the owner ignores the dash..

So what if there were 15%-20% diesel in the engine oil?
Post #1044750 4th Sep 2024 7:54am
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Moo



Member Since: 01 Oct 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 1327

Ukraine 
That's what I thought. I'd have taken an oil sample and sent it off for analysis.

At least you would know one way or another. Eiger Grey MY23 D250 SE with bits. Known as Noddy.
Post #1044753 4th Sep 2024 8:18am
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XplusYplusZ



Member Since: 16 Aug 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 476

Or perhaps it was clearly owner error...
(and the mechanics are just playing this out for the story.)

Post #1044759 4th Sep 2024 9:36am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17310

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
These are all good questions and plausible scenarios, but unless a sample is sent for analysis I doubt we will ever know for sure.

The questions in my mind are what could an owner do that results in that much damage in such a short time and low mileage, and what actually caused the blancmange texture? I have seen engines which have hand longer oil change intervals which have oil which looks perfect - so how do you do THAT to oil?

I don't see how oil dilution by diesel alone could be the cause, and I don't see how condensation alone or in combination with oil dilution could be the cause. I seriously wonder if something was intentionally or accidentally added (perhaps DEF down the wrong hole or something).

It shouldn't be possible to do that to sump oil!

Perhaps we on DEF2 should sponsor the engine guys to get a sample analysed.
Post #1044768 4th Sep 2024 10:57am
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Gareth



Member Since: 12 Dec 2011
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 1092

England 
Here’s a boroscope photo of the inside of my 3.0 I6 Defender D300, after 30k miles. 3.5 years old. Mainly short journeys, but a few decent runs a month. 1 dealer service at 16k, one self oil change at 25k.

A bit difficult to see because there is minimal space to get endoscope in, but it looks clear of any sludge, oil of course is black, but it was black within 10 minutes of last oil change!

Pic 1 is looking straight down next to the cam, pic 2 is looking back along the cam-caps.



Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge
 2021 Defender 110 X-Dynamic HSE D300 MHEV
1966 S2a 109 aka Betsy
1968 S2a 88 aka Bob
2014 Jaaaag F Type 3.0 Supercharged.
Post #1044797 4th Sep 2024 4:05pm
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XplusYplusZ



Member Since: 16 Aug 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 476

Thanks Gareth. No crude oil/coal in there!
Post #1044870 5th Sep 2024 7:33am
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Silb



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 9

Germany 
Regarding the oil thickening, could some malfunction in the EGR System (like the Valve or the Filter) have contributed to that? Putting more soot than expected in the combustion chambers?
Post #1044885 5th Sep 2024 9:12am
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lightning



Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2690

United Kingdom 
lt has to be something like that.
Post #1044957 5th Sep 2024 7:31pm
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