 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Additional sandwich plate oil cooler on a Puma, anyone? |
 
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| Crash7 Member Since: 21 Feb 2024 Location: South Posts: 31  
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Has anyone fitted an oil filter spin on thermostatic sandwich plate and additional oil cooler to a Puma 2.2?
So in essence, spin off the oil filter, fit this., https://auto.helperformance.com/hel-thermo...wich-plate And connect it to this, http://www.mocal.co.uk/products-oilcoolers.html I appreciate the 2.2 has a small engine cooler directly above the oil filter, however it is small and not in a direct air path and uses coolant, what with the recommended oil being thin 5w, and the well documented Puma cooling issues, keeping the oil temperature in check seems to make sense Thoughts welcome, good or bad! |
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28th Jun 2024 10:10am |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 1079  
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Thoughts are: You are adding complication and potential for leaks meaning possibly no oil at all with catastrophic consequences, while trying to fix a problem that does not exist.
Go for it! If it ain't broken it needs more fixing! |
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28th Jun 2024 12:54pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4216 
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I think you'd really need to monitor the oil temp to see if you have an issue in normal running first. High oil temps is not something that is a big issue as far as I know. If it's to protect against a sudden issue with the cooling system, I think other things will suffer first, such as cylinder head before the oil has time to break down.
The one thing I don't like about the engine oils specified for the Puma is they are all low HTHS. This is a fuel economy requirement, and in very over simplified terms means the oil is deliberately made a bit rubbish at being lubricating oil so that it can be more easily pushed around the engine. This can result in the oil losing viscosity when hot. They try to compensate for this with various additives, but the general consensus seems to be that oils that aren't low-HTHS are better, all other things being equal. So,that's a long way of saying switching to a different oil that is sill DPF friendly, but not low-HTHS should give better engine protection. Someone like Opie Oils would be well placed to advise on this. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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28th Jun 2024 12:58pm |
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| Crash7 Member Since: 21 Feb 2024 Location: South Posts: 31
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I appreciate where some are coming from, I have limited experience with Defenders / Ford TD4 but have experience with other brands, as well as race / track cars and understand the implications.
I do not have a huge amount of faith in the budget engineered Ford TD4 that was not designed specifically for a Defender. As an example, the Defender has no low coolant alarm, so, you could be running your engine with little coolant in it, the water temp gauge would remain low, as the stat would be reading the air temperature in the pipework, while the oil temperature would be soring to a crescendo of a catastrophic engine failure with no prior warning! - All down to something as simple as LR not adding a £25 float switch to the expansion tank, you know, the tank made out of opaque plastic that you cant see through to ascertain the coolant level. As pointed out in a previous post, Ford deciding to use oil to thin for purpose to improve the mpg and emissions on paper, as opposed to designing a unit fit for purpose? Value engineering at its finest! The above highlights the TD4 is not the pinnacle of engineering design. – I have worked in automotive manufacture and know that parts are designed by accountants. I have an oil & water temp gauge, and an oil pressure gauge, on warm days, while running ac, on a stage 1 mapped defender, oil temps will exceed where they need to be based on the 5W oil, pressures also drop due to the viscosity, which will lead to premature failures. – I do not have the blind faith in the TD4, hence the question. – I don’t see adding 5 joints to a 2.2 4 cylinder front mounted lump as overly complicated or risky, you want to try working on a rear mounted dry sumped flat 6, both oil and water cooled have significantly more joints and pipework. Running a 92’ stat will only see it open when the engine oil is getting hotter than it should be – It seems nobody has treaded this path, I may…… Last edited by Crash7 on 28th Jun 2024 8:08pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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28th Jun 2024 4:05pm |
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| Crash7 Member Since: 21 Feb 2024 Location: South Posts: 31
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Here is an example of a front mounted heat sink oil cooler, sometimes used for engine sometime transmission
 Click image to enlarge |
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28th Jun 2024 4:08pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3306 
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I don’t see any harm in adding a cooler, I’d be very interested to find out if it makes any difference. If you don’t want to solely rely on OBD gauge for coolant temp then I can recommend the Allisport header tank with float sensor and sight gauge for level. For oil perhaps try something a bit more spendy for piece of mind. I use Fuchs Titan Race Pro for engine and Swepco for diffs, gb, t box in my 2.4. Swepco engine oil is meant to be very good but I haven’t tried. For general heat management a Funk turbo blanket and Nakatanenga spacer for the fan, plus a few heat sleeves. Oh and an Allisport rad. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm. |
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28th Jun 2024 4:49pm |
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| Crash7 Member Since: 21 Feb 2024 Location: South Posts: 31
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Thanks for the info, I have an Alisport header with sight gauge and level sensor on order, 8 weeks lead. - I also run a low temp water stat (PEL500110)
I have run Fuchs Titan Pro previously in a race Caterham, what viscosity are you running? - I would like to switch to a suitable 10w-40, provided I can find something compatible |
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28th Jun 2024 8:22pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3418  
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If it is as much as they put into the intercooler piping design, or the initial sump design, or the initial 2.2 oil pump, or the early 2.4 piston cooling jets....... 
I run my Defender in quite elevated temperatures, and when it is above 35dC the AC is a God send, but surely, the condenser not only blocks air flow to the intercooler and radiator, but is also increasing the air temperature flowing over the latter two! I have searched for slightly higher viscosity oils, and put the discussion on https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic34176-45.html, somewhere about half way down. In short, all 5W40 oils are C3, and hence mid SAPS. What I concluded - better for the engine, worse for the DPF. Edit. I realize you mention 10W-40. Why go for higher viscosity at lower temperatures? Understand the higher viscosity at higher temperatures. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black Last edited by Dinnu on 29th Jun 2024 10:08am. Edited 1 time in total |
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29th Jun 2024 6:51am |
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| Mo Murphy Member Since: 01 Jun 2008 Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts Posts: 2241 
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I thought the TD4 engine only went in the Freelander ? Surely it's the 2.2 TDCI in the Defender ?
If you mix engine names surely this could cause confusion if seeking advice ? Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen. 50 Shades of Pennine Grey |
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29th Jun 2024 8:33am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20418
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2.4 TDCI & 2.2 TDCI in Defenders.
 $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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29th Jun 2024 8:46am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3418
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The 2.2 Tdci Duratorq engine in the Defender is completely different from the 2.2 Td4 PSA engine in the Freelander. Many mix up their names. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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29th Jun 2024 10:10am |
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| Will@LRW Member Since: 04 May 2019 Location: UK Posts: 181  
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I lost coolant on a 2.4 Puma one day (repeatedly through the day). There is no coolant sensor; there is a cylinder head sensor, so when the coolant is lost the temperature does actually keep rising instead of falling, and the ECU cuts the engine. LR Workshop
Find a Defender's history and spec: https://defender.lrworkshop.com |
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29th Jun 2024 2:12pm |
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| MK Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Santiago Posts: 2420  
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I fitted a low coolant alarm. It works. Puma 110" SW
............................................................. Earth first. Other planets later |
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29th Jun 2024 5:21pm |
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| Vitesse Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Sussex Posts: 381 
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Interesting thread. Just some further info. I fitted an oil temperature gauge to my 2015 Puma. The original sump rusted after two years. So I fitted a sensor in the new sump as part of the job. This has proved useful to monitor the oil temp etc. I agree re the low coolant issue and I am looking to fit a sensor in the header tank. 2015 90 XS Santorini Black
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30th Jun 2024 9:25am |
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