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Puma_MOG

Member Since: 08 Sep 2017
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 184

2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

Insurance and Green Laning - thing of the past?

Good day All,

So I am gearing up to collect a Defender 90 and going through the process of getting insurance. I found what looks to be a decent rate, considering the market, with Aviva via a compare site.

However, the policy states the below:

Use for any competitions, trial, performance test, race or trial of speed, including off-road events and track days whether
between motor vehicles or otherwise, and irrespective of whether this takes place on any circuit or track, formed or otherwise,
and regardless of any statutory authorisation of any such event.

I rang them up and asked what do they consider 'off-road' and explained how I plan to do a bit of green laning from time to time on public access roads. The rep wasn't sure what I was on about and had to call me back after speaking with someone else. I was told I would not be covered for 'off-roading'. I've since emailed Aviva explaining what I believe the difference is between lanes and off-road and asked for clarification.

While I was at it I contacted Lancaster who was able to match the Aviva quote but here again, their underwriters would not allow any sort of 'off-roading' and especially pay to play, which I wouldn't do.

He stated it was partly due to my 90 being a late reg and it's current market value and had it been an older one, perhaps it wouldn't be an issue.

Does this all sound normal? I appreciate there are specialist companies out there but my guess is I would be paying through the nose. i.e. I called Adrian Flux last month when I thought I found a 90 to buy and was quoted, drum roll please....£2650!

Is green laning on public access roads really considered off-roading?

Update:

After a lot of back and forth with my insurance company and giving them details on the difference of green laning and true off-roading, they wrote back saying my cover does include green laning.

Last edited by Puma_MOG on 10th May 2024 8:16am. Edited 2 times in total

7th May 2024 3:24pm

Moo

Member Since: 01 Oct 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 1372

I thought Green Lanes were classed as roads? If they are then surely you are just travelling on them, not off-roading.

Eiger Grey MY23 D250 SE with bits. Known as Noddy.

7th May 2024 3:36pm

Puma_MOG

Member Since: 08 Sep 2017
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 184

This was my thinking but reading their clause of events and off-roading has me wondering. That and the fact Lancaster stated the same.

Sort of in a pickle as the whole point of getting this 90 was to enjoy an outing here and there...

7th May 2024 3:46pm

Rosco

Member Since: 03 Dec 2010
Location: Burntwood
Posts: 1833

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red

I stand to be corrected but "off road" is aimed at those venturing away from the Kings Highway (pay and play sites in particular), but as greenlanes are recognised rights of way, your not off road.

Breakdown cover policies will often put a caveat in about only attending incidents accessible by a regular road going vehicle, but thats a different conversation. 2007 - Stornoway Grey 90 XS SW - Gone
2002 - Black Discovery II - Gone
2014 - Montalcino Red 110 XS SW

7th May 2024 4:03pm

Mitchnotrich

Member Since: 27 Apr 2019
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 43

2009 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Keswick Green

I know I went through this with Adrian Flux, and they covered my Puma 90 (2009) for Green Lanes, and therefore any roads classed as green lanes, RUPP's etc. I also asked them to clarify if it covered me for off roading in the Pyrenees as well, and after some thing and fro-ing they agreed that it did (for a certain period of time) and I have it in writing. Also the quote was no-where near that amount, but of course other factors can be at play to push up your quote. Worth joining GLASS as well as that got me a discount.

I did get a quote this year from A-Plan who used to be quite good. Same cover as previous years but had gone up by nearly 50% so went with Adrian Flux. Bit of a minefield these days with insurance. You could always try the NFU, they should cover you off road, but tend to be quite expensive in comparison. 90 - Gone but not forgotten
200 tdi - sold for a song
3 Discoveries - 1/2/3 - cost me a fortune but loved 'em all
2.4 Puma 90 - Current obsession

7th May 2024 4:06pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Any legal vehicular ROW whether surfaced or not is a "road" and cannot be considered an "off-road event". Provided there is no element of competition and you're covered on tarmac you'll be covered.green laning.

You're confusing the issue by expecting someone of limited awareness and intelligence to answer the question!

7th May 2024 4:34pm

Puma_MOG

Member Since: 08 Sep 2017
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 184

Apologies for confusing the issue and I had no expectations nor assume anything, so not sure why you felt the need to state that. I was confused hence the post.

7th May 2024 5:18pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

All I was getting at was my belief that you expected someone answering the phone enquiry at your insurer to be competent to understand the question and answer it correctly. By and large now those employed to do this have very little clue about anything other than the most run-of-the-mill question. I doubt they know what a "green lane" is, hence my comment that you probably confused them.

By asking the question here you are much more likely to get a useful answer.

7th May 2024 6:44pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20367

Byway Open To All Traffic aka BOAT, is legal vehicular access with the same rights as a public road,
that we all use, so it is not off road.
The surface doesn’t matter, just the route is a legal access route plotted on a OS map or properly signed or ideally both. (Ideal in case an idiot tries to question your rights).

It doesn’t matter if the surface is tarred, solid, concrete or not surfaced at all.

A UCR might be a grey area as maybe a ORPA.
A BOAT however is public access, but private land is private that would be then considered off road such as an “off-road event” or “off road trials” etc.
That would be a completion type event then.

If for example a Farmer said you could access their land say after harvest or a fallow field, then that’s where you would have to be careful. The farmer would have their own insurance on their land.
However, if you were given permission aka permissive access and then say you accidentally rolled it there then you’d have big, big problems.

This is just a guide as my understanding, very trick or dangerous Byways would be an area to be very careful of too as if there was significant damage they could argue that the risk was clear to see.

This is why some people that do competition events have their road going Defender, and their off road Defender is towed to said event and insured for off road events and competition.

Though off topic, but in a similar subject I’d love to have a Bowler Wildcat V8.
But that would be a dream, but as a competition vehicle.
One could dream!

$W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪

7th May 2024 6:52pm

Screbble

Member Since: 26 Apr 2015
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 2102

2004 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Zambezi Silver

Yes as per above - if it’s a BOAT and some UCR’s then technically it’s the King’s Highway - maintained (or not in many cases…) at public expense.

Even GLASS are tending to use the term Green Roads.

Although I am not a sensible benchmark, I would consider my insurance to cover me when driving legitimate green roads.

7th May 2024 7:27pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20367

Councils are financially legally obliged to maintain BOAT’s to an accessible and safe standard, which is why many would rather secretly close them down by poor maintenance and overgrown hedgerows.
Which is where GLASS do am excellent job of preventing this happening. (Once they are gone they are gone!).

In effect the maintenance only includes proper signage so it’s clear to the public it’s route status, which should be replaced if damaged and filling in gigantic ruts that could be dangerous and things like that.
Often using hardcore in places etc but not making it tarred so that it keeps its character.
Hedges are important, but here is a limit as to where they should be be maintained and when they can be cut.
You have the right to lightly trim obstructions if the route is blocked as well with in reason. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪

7th May 2024 7:34pm

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 727

custom90 wrote:

This is why some people that do competition events have their road going Defender, and their off road Defender is towed to said event and insured for off road events and competition.

Most off roaders will not have insurance for the vehicle. If you are entering an event then usually there is an MSUK permit to cover the risk for insurance. Such as injuring someone. It will not cover the cost of repairing your vehicle.

Likewise most venues will also have liability insurance for similar purposes.

This is all akin to taking a sports car on a track day. While not impossible, it would be unusual to have comprehensive vehicle cover for such activities. And even less likely to have your vehicle covered if entering a rally or hill climb.

7th May 2024 8:47pm

TexasRover

Member Since: 24 Nov 2022
Location: Paris
Posts: 1051

2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Chawton White

blackwolf wrote:
All I was getting at was my belief that you expected someone answering the phone enquiry at your insurer to be competent to understand the question and answer it correctly. By and large now those employed to do this have very little clue about anything other than the most run-of-the-mill question. I doubt they know what a "green lane" is, hence my comment that you probably confused them.

By asking the question here you are much more likely to get a useful answer.

Yes I would agree with that. I was reading through the local planning regulations as I am considering an extension. Came up with a few questions and called the Council. Needless to say the the conversation ended with "you tell me, they are your rules". Insurance company employees are a few steps below Council workers in terms of competence I would say

7th May 2024 8:51pm

Puma_MOG

Member Since: 08 Sep 2017
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 184

blackwolf wrote:
All I was getting at was my belief that you expected someone answering the phone enquiry at your insurer to be competent to understand the question and answer it correctly. By and large now those employed to do this have very little clue about anything other than the most run-of-the-mill question. I doubt they know what a "green lane" is, hence my comment that you probably confused them.

By asking the question here you are much more likely to get a useful answer.

Apologies for the mix up and thank you for the clarification.

7th May 2024 9:13pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

You're very welcome, and I'm sorry if I inadvertently gave the impression that I was criticising you.

7th May 2024 9:39pm

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