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kevin-h

Member Since: 24 Mar 2020
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 27

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 HT Keswick Green

Puma 2.2 Loss of power with Fault Codes

Hi all,
I have been experiencing an intermittent issue for the last year or so and want to try and fix it before a planned road trip this summer.

When accelerating, either from standstill (typically in 3rd) or say up a hill on a motorway (in 6th) I experience a sudden and short lived loss of power (revs remain constant). It does not always throw a fault code but when it does I see P2122-16 and P2138-62 and also lose traction control.

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

The fault codes highlight issues with the throttle/accelerator pedal.
When I look at the live values I can see that when the accelerator is at rest I have a base line value greater than zero of 30%. As I press the accelerator not all the pedal values show an effect. I have attached screen grabs of;
1. Pedal at rest
2. Pedal pressed slightly
3. Pedal pressed more

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

Does anyone have any experience of this kind of fault or how the accelerator pedal works?

Thanks in advance for any insights.

Kevin

13th Apr 2024 9:35am

andy63

Member Since: 30 Jun 2023
Location: north east
Posts: 516

I have no experience of your issues but on my 2.2l I do know the tpp sensor has two potentiometers.. Each has its own supply and output to the ecm.. They have a common earth..
Its signals are used to tell the ecm the pedal position and direction of travel..
They are also tied in with brake switch by way of a plausibility issues..
Your shots of the pedal position sensor to me flag up that on the third set of values that the pedal position signal doesn't change much from the second shot even though you say it is pressed further..there may be an issue with the potentiometer track..
I sometimes view my two outputs when running torque... One starts at about 34% and the other around 14% from memory..
The main thing is they both rise and fall as the pedal is used..
It would be nice to be able to view live data on a scan tool of the tpp sensor outputs when the fault occurred..
Can't think of much else atm

14th Apr 2024 5:11pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20382

You could do with a fully functioning model, to compare specs with really.
Could anyone do that with a 2.2?

It might be the throttle needs replacing due to issues with it mentioned by Andy just above.
(Who has more knowledge of it than me).

Perhaps a take off part might be a possibility? $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪

14th Apr 2024 5:23pm

kevin-h

Member Since: 24 Mar 2020
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 27

Thanks guys,
Yes, ideally i’d like to get some live values from a known good vehicle to compare but I don’t have anyone I know that I can ask.

15th Apr 2024 11:20am

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20382

Try asking Gary @ Alive or Pete @ Bell Auto they know their stuff when it comes to these things.

$W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪

15th Apr 2024 12:00pm

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3414

2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black

What software are you using? Did you do the test with engine running, or just the ignition on? 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

15th Apr 2024 12:01pm

andy63

Member Since: 30 Jun 2023
Location: north east
Posts: 516

kevin-h wrote:
Thanks guys,
Yes, ideally i’d like to get some live values from a known good vehicle to compare but I don’t have anyone I know that I can ask.

If you want the values that a scan tool or say the torque app will generate in terms of a percentage readout I've had a look at my 2.2l today..
I was only quoting from memory above
But the readouts for tpp sensors D and E
Are.. With acc pedal not in use the respective readings are 31.7%…
And 7.8%..

If you then fully depress the throttle they become 100% and 37.25% at fully depressed pedal..
That's from a truck that is running with no issues so that's what you should expect to see..
Just download torque.. Even the pro version is only a few pounds and very handy 👍

If you need scope voltage values off the signal wires I should be able to do that at some point in the next few days but I think the above should do.. The problem would be it the fault was an intermittent one and then you are either needing on road monitoring or just substitution of the unit to see if that solves it.. 👍

15th Apr 2024 1:31pm

Ianh

Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 2010

An eddy quick thing to do.

Disconnect the wiring connector, give both set of contacts a good spray with electrical contact cleaner, give 10 plus mins to ensure evaporation. Then reconnect connector and see if that improves things.

15th Apr 2024 3:02pm

kevin-h

Member Since: 24 Mar 2020
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 27

Dinnu wrote:
What software are you using? Did you do the test with engine running, or just the ignition on?

Thanks Dinnu, I did this with the engine running but a local garage did the same with the ignition off and observed the same values.

17th Apr 2024 10:30am

kevin-h

Member Since: 24 Mar 2020
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 27

Dinnu wrote:
What software are you using? Did you do the test with engine running, or just the ignition on?

I was using a Gap Diagnostics IID tool

17th Apr 2024 10:38am

kevin-h

Member Since: 24 Mar 2020
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 27

andy63 wrote:
kevin-h wrote:
Thanks guys,
Yes, ideally i’d like to get some live values from a known good vehicle to compare but I don’t have anyone I know that I can ask.

If you want the values that a scan tool or say the torque app will generate in terms of a percentage readout I've had a look at my 2.2l today..
I was only quoting from memory above
But the readouts for tpp sensors D and E
Are.. With acc pedal not in use the respective readings are 31.7%…
And 7.8%..

If you then fully depress the throttle they become 100% and 37.25% at fully depressed pedal..
That's from a truck that is running with no issues so that's what you should expect to see..
Just download torque.. Even the pro version is only a few pounds and very handy 👍

If you need scope voltage values off the signal wires I should be able to do that at some point in the next few days but I think the above should do.. The problem would be it the fault was an intermittent one and then you are either needing on road monitoring or just substitution of the unit to see if that solves it.. 👍

Thank you Andy, I will fully depress and see what values I get.

17th Apr 2024 10:40am

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3414

kevin-h wrote:
Dinnu wrote:
What software are you using? Did you do the test with engine running, or just the ignition on?

I was using a Gap Diagnostics IID tool

Sorry, do not have that tool, otherwise would have gladly run the same tests. I have a cheapo ELM327 and Car Scanner software which I can do some tests with. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

17th Apr 2024 11:03am

kevin-h

Member Since: 24 Mar 2020
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 27

I have got readings for pedal not depressed and pedal fully depressed;

Pedal not depressed

Click image to enlarge

Pedal fully depressed

Click image to enlarge

Do these values correspond with you andy63?

17th Apr 2024 12:51pm

andy63

Member Since: 30 Jun 2023
Location: north east
Posts: 516

Hi kev... That appears to be half the story.. Its showing tpp sensor circuit D.. Starting at 30% and going to 100%..
Does your reader not give tpp circuit E for the second potentiometer...
The mid two readings appear to show two sensors reacting in the correct manner..
The other readings appear to show the electronic throttle in more or less a wide open position which would be correct..

17th Apr 2024 2:45pm

kevin-h

Member Since: 24 Mar 2020
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 27

Thank you Andy
I don’t have a circuit E to choose with my tool.
I do have some different pedal stats though which I’ve included here;

Pedal not depressed

Click image to enlarge

Pedal fully depressed

Click image to enlarge

Are these more helpful?

17th Apr 2024 4:43pm

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