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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17387

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
This is the difference between the 60mm spacers (first photo) and 30mm spacers (second photo). The 30s result in the bar being that little but tighter to the tank guard, which I prefer.


Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge


The bending effect noted on Miffy's spacers in the post above is interesting. When I originally fitted the X-Deflex I was extremely surprised at the massive preload which the spacers apply to the polybushes when clamped up tight, and I noticed that after a week (about 150 miles on tarmac at commuting speeds and with no excess load) that my nearside spacer was beginning to assume the same bend (not really visible in the photo above, unfortunately) and I wonder if it is the preload on the bush rather than the dynamic load on the bar which is the cause of this. When I fitted the 30s I spaced the clamps with a number of thick washers to reduce the preload to something I feel is sensible, and I will monitor the spacers for bending. If it become a problem, a couple of fillet welds on each spacer should sort it permanently, so not a difficult job.

The amount of surface rust on my chassis now is rather depressing, but I suppose it is 16 years old and has never had any extra protection on top of the rather feeble factory paint. I'll have to do something about it before too much longer, I expect.
Post #1002191 29th Jul 2023 4:57pm
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rustandoil



Member Since: 08 Sep 2012
Location: Cotswolds
Posts: 738

England 2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS DCPU Bonatti Grey
Thanks for posting the pictures, I like the way the 30mm spacers look, I might well follow suit.
I wonder why the Foundry spacers have the feature that "pre-loads" the bushes as you describe?... If the bar was mounted directly to the chassis there would be no such pre-load?
One thing I don't really like is the way the spacers are bolted to the chassis using only two of the available 4 per side.
Post #1002195 29th Jul 2023 5:59pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17387

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
The polybush spacers supplied with the X-Deflex are dimensionally different to those fitted with a standard ARB (for a start the hole in the middle is bigger). When fitted round the X-Deflex halfshaft and then into the U-shaped clamps, the top of the bush is lower than the mating face of the clamp. I imagine that the stepped arrangement of the spacer is intended to make up for this difference, but with the current kit-of-parts the dimensions are such as to put a huge preload on the bush. it makes me wonder if the bushes supplied now are not the same shape and size as the bushes the kit was designed for.

When in operation doing anti-roll bar staff it is hard to see that there would be any significant vertical load on the mounts, their sole purpose is to support the bar and most of the forces will be torsional within the bar. It is also worth considering that the original chassis mounts are not exactly robust, and also that the life-expectancy of ARB bushes is generally quite long (the standard rubber ones I've just taken off are at least 12 years old and have done more than 200,000 miles, and whilst clearly "used" they are completely serviceable.
Post #1002196 29th Jul 2023 6:19pm
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rustandoil



Member Since: 08 Sep 2012
Location: Cotswolds
Posts: 738

England 2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS DCPU Bonatti Grey
Yes, all good points👍🏻

If I make some spacers I will replicate the pre-load of the kit version 🙂
Post #1002216 29th Jul 2023 8:39pm
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Screbble



Member Since: 26 Apr 2015
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 2102

United Kingdom 2004 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Zambezi Silver
blackwolf wrote:
This is the difference between the 60mm spacers (first photo) and 30mm spacers (second photo). The 30s result in the bar being that little but tighter to the tank guard, which I prefer.


Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge


The bending effect noted on Miffy's spacers in the post above is interesting. When I originally fitted the X-Deflex I was extremely surprised at the massive preload which the spacers apply to the polybushes when clamped up tight, and I noticed that after a week (about 150 miles on tarmac at commuting speeds and with no excess load) that my nearside spacer was beginning to assume the same bend (not really visible in the photo above, unfortunately) and I wonder if it is the preload on the bush rather than the dynamic load on the bar which is the cause of this. When I fitted the 30s I spaced the clamps with a number of thick washers to reduce the preload to something I feel is sensible, and I will monitor the spacers for bending. If it become a problem, a couple of fillet welds on each spacer should sort it permanently, so not a difficult job.

The amount of surface rust on my chassis now is rather depressing, but I suppose it is 16 years old and has never had any extra protection on top of the rather feeble factory paint. I'll have to do something about it before too much longer, I expect.


That does look like a really good but of kit - nice and shiny too Rolling with laughter
Great explanation as always Blackwolf 👍

Good photo too - looks like you have a quad-axle beast 🤪
Post #1002246 30th Jul 2023 8:38am
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mwestcrew



Member Since: 09 Dec 2019
Location: South Warwickshire
Posts: 253

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Baltic Blue
Thanks blackwolf et al for comments. I will invest in one of these very soon. 2011 130 Utility Body
2005 110 Van
Post #1002435 31st Jul 2023 4:47pm
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rustandoil



Member Since: 08 Sep 2012
Location: Cotswolds
Posts: 738

England 2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS DCPU Bonatti Grey
OK, a couple of hours on the mill and I have these....


Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge
Post #1005018 21st Aug 2023 6:00pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17387

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
blackwolf wrote:
... The bending effect noted on Miffy's spacers in the post above is interesting. When I originally fitted the X-Deflex I was extremely surprised at the massive preload which the spacers apply to the polybushes when clamped up tight, and I noticed that after a week (about 150 miles on tarmac at commuting speeds and with no excess load) that my nearside spacer was beginning to assume the same bend (not really visible in the photo above, unfortunately) and I wonder if it is the preload on the bush rather than the dynamic load on the bar which is the cause of this. When I fitted the 30s I spaced the clamps with a number of thick washers to reduce the preload to something I feel is sensible, and I will monitor the spacers for bending. If it become a problem, a couple of fillet welds on each spacer should sort it permanently, so not a difficult job. ...


As an update to to the above, the preload-adjusted spacers haven't deformed at all since fitting, and I have now done quite a few miles including most types of driving. I feel this supports my "excessive preload" theory.
Post #1005025 21st Aug 2023 6:35pm
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rustandoil



Member Since: 08 Sep 2012
Location: Cotswolds
Posts: 738

England 2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS DCPU Bonatti Grey
I have replicated the standard pre-load @ 6mm on my spacers
Post #1005031 21st Aug 2023 7:27pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17387

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I noticed! Nice job on the machining.
Post #1005036 21st Aug 2023 7:53pm
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rustandoil



Member Since: 08 Sep 2012
Location: Cotswolds
Posts: 738

England 2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS DCPU Bonatti Grey
Thanks!.... I like to make a bit of swarf Cool
Post #1005114 22nd Aug 2023 10:21am
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chris.beard82



Member Since: 18 Sep 2024
Location: Worcester
Posts: 2

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
I’ve been installing the X-Deflex this weekend. How did you guys decide on the length of the knuckle arms? I assume that I want them as extended as possible to give the best ground clearance?
Post #1047870 6th Oct 2024 12:13pm
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rustandoil



Member Since: 08 Sep 2012
Location: Cotswolds
Posts: 738

England 2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS DCPU Bonatti Grey
I don't think there's a set length.... I just wound the rod ends in leaving around 20 / 25mm thread exposed, making sure they were the same.
Post #1047894 6th Oct 2024 3:46pm
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chris.beard82



Member Since: 18 Sep 2024
Location: Worcester
Posts: 2

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
Mine have ended up at about 30mm and 40mm of exposed thread. It messed with my head a bit got there the end! Thanks for the input. I have fitted Gwyn Lewis’s Explorer suspension kit and I have a 85kg roof tent so without any sway bar it was quite alarming if I had to swerve. Just took the 110 for a drive and it is a huge improvement with the x-deflex fitted.
Post #1047896 6th Oct 2024 4:10pm
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custom90



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20381

United Kingdom 
blackwolf wrote:

The amount of surface rust on my chassis now is rather depressing, but I suppose it is 16 years old and has never had any extra protection on top of the rather feeble factory paint. I'll have to do something about it before too much longer, I expect.

Dinitrol I did mine with, quite a while ago and it is still 95% good now as well, it’s good stuff. Thumbs Up
Foundry 4x4 are pretty good too, I bought two of their MT82 mag filler / drains not long ago.
I know there is a magnet inside the grabs anyway, but still good to have.

On a side note based on the pic posted, I just noticed the 110 fuel tank compared to a 90 seems more vulnerable, but equally the 110 fuel tank is easier to work on and take out than a 90.

None of it is anything a good fuel tank guard doesn’t sort out though, of which I seem to remember yours does have which you’ve fitted.

Do you have Diff guards? Mine has the QT wrap around type, similar to wild bear type now available.
Some people have HD diff pans too, which has a bit more ground clearance than a guard.

Slightly off topic admittedly. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
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Post #1047900 6th Oct 2024 4:39pm
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