Lodelaner wrote:

LandymanStefan wrote:

I’m really interested to know if anyone here has had first hand experience of getting out of a cross axled style situation by using the braking technique to force the torque across the axle or if the idea isn’t that successful in reality.

Through experience and not inconsiderable cost, I would say that if you want to benefit from an ATB, keep it transparent on road and get maximum cost benefit, just put one in the back and gently feather the brakes.

I've tried a few combinations:

- Rear ATB on a V8 90 Station wagon manual

then on a 50th Anniversary Defender auto (they don't have TC)

- Front and rear ATB,
- Rear ATB only
- ARB locker on the rear only

The braking technique took a while to get the feel of in the V8 90, initially I was using too much brake and then learnt to feather the brake. All you need to do is give it a helping hand and provide a little resistance to prevent spinning so the tyre can find traction. The technique that worked for me was to just keep the power on and the back end would wiggle around - a bit like a Land Rover twerk - and then it would find the available traction and grip to progress.

I liked it so much I had front and rear ATB fitted to the 50th. With the auto box it was easier to left foot brake and it was pretty effective. However on the short wheelbase I didn't like the effect of the front ATB on tarmac - power-on understeer and the way it tightened its line when lifting off. It wasn't dramatic, I just didn't like it in combination with an Overfinched V8.

So I removed the front ATB and went with the rear ATB only. I ended up breaking the front diff though on a simple little rock-step that I was trying to climb up - I should have let the diff do its own thing. Instead I over-braked to find traction, not realising that I was cross-axled and a front wheel was spinning - and then I heard the horrible ratchet sound of gears as the front diff let go. I have a video somewhere - it still makes me shudder.

I then put an ARB in the back. I only ever used it when I was stuck - never to get into a situation where I got stuck. It became known as the 'unstuck' button and it was brilliant.

jimbo55 wrote:

I think that Nigel is trying to prevent people breaking loads of other parts without thinking, if you drive with some mechanical sympathy and don’t keep spinning the wheels then there’s not reason as to why by fitting a locker/atb you’d need upgraded shafts.

It’s not usually the torque that breaks shafts or cv’a, it’s shock loading when a spinni mg wheel suddenly gets traction.

I ran a rear locker for 2 years in my old 300tdi and I’ve had twin lockers in my tuned td5 for the last 7 years. Both on 33” tyres and above, a fair bit of hard off-roading and abuse in that time. I have only used standard shafts and cv’s and touch wood never broke one.

I maybe overly mechanically sympathetic, but would much rather lock the diffs and crawl though somewhere than be spinning wheels and using excess momentum.

LandymanStefan wrote:

Thanks for the great write up and interesting hearing from someone who has had all the combinations im interested in.

What made you change from the atb to the locker in the rear in the end? Was is the shortfalls of the atb or a bit of an experiment.

You're welcome.

I'm just thinking back to why I changed and as I recall it was a combination of things - although I rated the ATB ( and still do) I just fancied trying a full locker, and I asked them to put one in the back whilst they were replacing the front one. It was fine with my gentle driving style and limited/occasional needs. JB

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ashtrans wrote:

not to do this, I am not a fan of the sliding collar locker design,

it would end up as compromise of both designs.

That, is a very good reason to fit either an ATB or a locker

blackwolf wrote:

I have to say that I remain both impressed and completely satisfied with my front, centre, and rear ATBs, and they've never let me down.

Show off....

blackwolf wrote:

I have to say that I remain both impressed and completely satisfied with my front, centre, and rear ATBs, and they've never let me down.

Well... Two down and one to go... First proper drive tomorrow.