 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > The Big Bang |
 
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| jbcollier Member Since: 29 Apr 2024 Location: Edmonton AB Posts: 119   
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As so many stories start, I was just driving along….
When there was a bang followed by a loud thrumming. I was doing a 100 kph so slowed down and pulled over. Just before stopping there was a cloud of coolant steam from under the hood. I set up the warning triangles and then crawled under for a look:  Click image to enlarge Obviously we weren't going anywhere so I called a tow truck and arranged for a rental truck and car carrier to haul it home. Then up on the stands for a closer look. Here's the culprit: Click image to enlarge The centre joint's locating ball failed which turned the mild mannered shaft into one of the greater demons. First it did the transmission oil level check, then it took out the LHD T/C mount which caused the powertrain to drop which sheared a stud or two off the exhaust manifold, ripped a coolant hose off, and otherwise had a jolly time till I ground to a halt. Moral of the story? Not sure... maybe beware of fancy driveshafts? |
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7th Dec 2024 8:39pm |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5730 
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The prop looks complete. Did its bolts come apart?
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7th Dec 2024 8:56pm |
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| jbcollier Member Since: 29 Apr 2024 Location: Edmonton AB Posts: 119
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Yup, polish on order.
Yes, it's a double cardan shaft from a reputable supplier. It's (was) even a HO shaft. Nope, bolted tight. The centre ball between the two joints just let go. |
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7th Dec 2024 9:41pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17453  
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Well, you found out what the bracket on the cross-member is for - catching the transmission!
How old was the prop shaft? Has it been serviced regularly? Quite worrying since I have a similar prop in the same colour and probably from the same supplier. |
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7th Dec 2024 9:58pm |
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| jbcollier Member Since: 29 Apr 2024 Location: Edmonton AB Posts: 119
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The shaft was fresh and religiously greased.
There is another possible scenario: That the LHD mount failed first which dropped the powertrain and then the shaft centre ball broke due to the impact. Bit of a chicken and egg situation. |
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7th Dec 2024 10:04pm |
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| mwestcrew Member Since: 09 Dec 2019 Location: South Warwickshire Posts: 265 
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Yikes! I hope it was the mount that let go. I have a front prop that look remarkably similar.
 2011 130 Utility Body
2005 110 Van |
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7th Dec 2024 11:53pm |
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| jbcollier Member Since: 29 Apr 2024 Location: Edmonton AB Posts: 119
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I'm switching to a lengthened D2 front shaft.
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8th Dec 2024 12:12am |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3645 
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I feel for you not great at this time of year DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,
I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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8th Dec 2024 6:41am |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 1087  
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Why exactly the double Cardon joint? When I had a D2 they were a known (catastrophic) failure point.
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8th Dec 2024 9:07am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17453
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Disco2 DC joints are only a significant weakness on V8 versions and the general understanding is that this is due to the proximity of the exhaust which accelerates dessication of the grease in the joint. Disco2 DC joints also lack grease nipples as standard which causes a further problem. That having been said, mileages well over 150k are normal on TD5 vehicles without prop shaft problems.
If the failed prop shaft in this thread is a Gwyn Lewis HD shaft (and I am really not sure if it is or not but it doesn't look quite as substantial as my GL DC prop), the joint is substantially larger and stronger than that of a Disco2, and I would be extremely surprised if the prop shaft initiated the destruction - it is I think more likely that the prop shaft was compromised by something else. We don't know from what has been said so far what has actually failed on the joint, it looks to me as though the spigot on the long side which fits in the centre of the spherical bearing has sheared off. The spigot is under very little load and it is hard to understand what would lead it to fail, unless there was a metallurgical defect (which should be apparent in the fracture face), or a solid object such as a stone became lodged in the joint, or something (like a gearbox) fell on the joint ,or the alignment of the joint became so disrupted ,for examle.by the transmission moving somewhere it shouldn't, that the limit of articulation was exceeded. It is.evident that the giant hole in the gearbox was caused by the prop shaft but from the photos it isn't possible to say which came first. Whatever the cause is is an extremely disturbing, extensive and expensive failure. The destruction is shocking. |
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8th Dec 2024 10:20am |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1428 
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Indeed. Someone considered this scenario to be enough of a possibility and designed a bracket to do exactly that. Quite a shocking result. A prompt to check the transmission mounts and replace any worn ones ASAP! |
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8th Dec 2024 11:14am |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1428
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The bracket on the crossmember has actually done a good job.
The 'bent bracket' construction, with no stiffening or reinforcement features, was able to deform on impact, then cradle and support the gearbox without totally collapsing. Mystery function resolved.  |
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8th Dec 2024 11:23am |
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| jbcollier Member Since: 29 Apr 2024 Location: Edmonton AB Posts: 119
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Yes, it is a GL shaft. I'm also back to the centre joint giving out first as the mounts were also fresh and there was absolutely no clunking or lash present, and mounts have failed in other vehicles without such destruction. That does not mean, however, that GL shafts are a problem. We don't know why the centre joint failed. As Mr BW has said, there could have been a mechanical reason for the failure (rock, etc).
I haven't shown you everything. It also shattered the housing between the gearbox and the transfer case. That is what allowed it to drop down, pivoting on the one-piece, LOF connector shaft. I'm thinking that it might have gotten REALLY interesting if I had the original two piece shaft. I'm not going to replace the GL shaft for reasons other than once-bitten-twice-shy. The GL shaft is a heavy lump, easily twice the weight of the modified D2 shaft. I do some off-road but nothing too extreme. It is mainly a hauler* so no need for the extra articulation and weight. * there are actually very few vehicles that can carry two canoes, four people and all their gear. It is also, after a few mods, the very best 25-below and blizzard-ing vehicle on the planet. |
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8th Dec 2024 1:46pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17453
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I thought it looked as though the transfer box and MT82 had separated.
I.assume that both axles roll freely still? I was wondering what would happened if either the transfer box or MT82 locked solid at speed, could the drive line shock wrench the DC joints apart? |
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8th Dec 2024 2:49pm |
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