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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 40
Australia 
Defender 15p not starting
Hi,

I'm having non-starting issues. Cranks but doesn't fire. It used to start first crank every time.

In terms of what's changed recently, I put a diesel fuel system cleaner additive in. Actually ran better. Makes me suspect a blockage.


I have:

    * Noticed that fuel pump doesn't always self-prime, as it used to. Forcing priming (5 presses on accelerator) works every time. Suggests relay is OK?
    * Confirmed no error on nanocom. Also tested fuel pump, injectors, crank posn sensor - seemingly OK.
    * Removed blocked fuel filter air bleed valve - another on the way. Even before I did this I could feel fuel flowing through all the pipes and hoses (e.g. fuel cooler)
    * cleaned MAF
    * Replaced fuel filter
    * confirmed no oil in ECU plug (never has been)
    * confirmed ECU earthed OK
    * confirmed that I get RPM while cranking, via tach and nanocom - although only ~200RPM. I read somewhere this needs to be over 300?


Batteries are fine - I have 2.

I'm going try testing/changing the crank sensor next (and wiring). And then testing resistances, amperes etc. I have a fuel pressure test kit coming.

It's not in a position where I can bump start.

Will also check pump once I have cut a hole in the floor (as I have a long range tank, towbar etc)...

I can't imagine all the injectors have blocked? Ultimately will check if needed.

Any other ideas?[/list]
Post #1053526 1st Dec 2024 7:32am
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landy andy



Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5724
2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver
Does it start every time after a fuel prime?

If yes then possibly injector seals.

If you don’t hear the relay each time you turn on the ignition check terminals on fuel pump relay.
Post #1053534 1st Dec 2024 9:01am
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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 40
Australia 
It isn't starting at all, no ignition whatsoever. It usually only primes when I trigger a purge. Otherwise only every tenth attempt or so...
Post #1053537 1st Dec 2024 9:17am
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Hazza



Member Since: 10 Jan 2011
Location: North Yorkshire / Leeds
Posts: 218
United Kingdom 1990 Defender 110 Td5 HT Bronze Green
Pretty sure the Nanocom lets you test injectors? I.e. you can 'fire' them remotely, listening for a click? Would be good to confirm that there's communication from ECU to injectors.

You could try a bit of easy start, will just confirm that you have compression and timing, and will then pinpoint that the issue is fuel (supply or injection). 1990 Defender 110 200TDI Camper - now converted to Td5 power
Post #1053646 2nd Dec 2024 12:50pm
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TexasRover



Member Since: 24 Nov 2022
Location: Paris
Posts: 1081
France 2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Chawton White
If you have priming issues I suggest you look at that again. Fuel pump or relay can be going out. I had an issue where the engine was running but after I disconnected the fuel line I could not get it to prime again.

Pump was running but not pumping. Was pretty clear as with the fuel lines disconnected at the cooler and the pump priming there was just a dribble coming out.

Had to do the ritual and chop the hole in the rear floor to change the pump. Made a nice hatch that should have been there from the start.

After pump change there was as strong flow that filled up a water bottle in no time.
Post #1053647 2nd Dec 2024 1:15pm
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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 40
Australia 
Thanks. Those are good suggestions.

I have tested the injectors, they are OK according to the nanocom.

I also changed the crank sensor. The cranking RPM doesn’t get over 210, I have read it needs to be over 300? Denso starter on order.

I will try easy start and cutting the floor to get to the pump - was always going to do that anyway. Has anyone tried to replace the pump motor? I will probably shell out for a VDO one but would like to keep a spare.
Post #1053680 2nd Dec 2024 8:07pm
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MadTom



Member Since: 10 Sep 2013
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 625
Czech Republic 1999 Defender 130 Td5 HCPU Baltic Blue
With Nanocom check, it the engine ECU is not imobilized. It is in the last menu.
If not, there could be problem with in tank fuel pump. Before remowing it from tank, you can measure supply current to pump, measuring at the fuse. And also measure fuel pressure, it shoulb be 4 Bar. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo Smile
Post #1053690 2nd Dec 2024 10:16pm
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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 40
Australia 
Thanks, will do.

However I have successfully removed the 10AS and modified the ECU. Have done 100s of Ks since. And it wouldn’t crank if immobilised.

On a related point I pushed the rollover inertia switch and could have sworn it clicked! Made no difference to starting though.

My gut feel is it’s fuelling; will explore that next.
Post #1053693 2nd Dec 2024 10:22pm
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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 40
Australia 
I have overhauled the fuel filter head. The non return valve was stuck open and the air purge valve was blocked.

I replaced the crank sensor as the old one looked cooked. But worked fine.

The pump seems Ok. I have connected a pressure gauge to the pressure regulator (in the fuel temperature port) and when running a purge I get a steady 4 bar.

BUT the pressure drops to zero as soon as the pump stops. Does that suggest a failed return valve?
Post #1053962 6th Dec 2024 6:56am
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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 40
Australia 
I’m beginning to wonder if the non return valve is in the wrong position… I reassembled it as it was and as some forums suggest. As shown… on front inside.



Click image to enlarge

But I have seen other people suggesting back inside and this seems to make more sense as that’s feeding from the tank rather than the cooler?
Post #1053979 6th Dec 2024 9:50am
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rustandoil



Member Since: 08 Sep 2012
Location: Cotswolds
Posts: 743
England 2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS DCPU Bonatti Grey

Click image to enlarge

Does this help?
Post #1053982 6th Dec 2024 10:18am
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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 40
Australia 
The claim is that it goes on line 12 (as it was originally). I don’t understand the logic of it unless the duckbill stays closed when pressure is withdrawn to stop the fuel from that line and all upstream draining… this guy seems adamant that is correct but doesn’t explain why…
Post #1053985 6th Dec 2024 10:46am
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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 40
Australia 
Update…

New battery. Also earthed ECU to battery. Although had low resistance to earth.

Assuming that pressure is supposed to drop after priming, I think pump is fine. Also put more diesel in tank. Although still not full as using jerry cans.

Tested everything I could think of with nanocom. No issues apparent.

Questions:

Given that I put fuel system cleaner through recently could it be junk blocking the tiny filter behind the pressure regulator, or the injectors?

RPMs not getting over 220. Starter motor compromised?

I notice while cranking it takes about 5s for the RPMs to show on the nanocom. Noisy signal from starter?

When fitting a new crank sensor I noticed the old one had no o-ring. It was really hard to get the new one in with an o-ring. It sits out about 1mm. Problem?

If the nanocom is able to trigger the injectors and I am seeing the cylinder values change while cranking can I assume the ecu is firing them?

If there was an injector leak or blockage wouldn’t it at least start?

Thanks!
Post #1054117 7th Dec 2024 9:08pm
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Dr Phibes



Member Since: 24 Apr 2024
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 40
Australia 
Update 2…
I dumped a lot of starter fluid in and it ran briefly.

After taking the fuel pressure regulator apart, and checking the mesh filter (which was clean), something blindingly obvious struck me… The problem is that after priming the fuel is draining back into the tank? Because the pressure is returning to zero as soon as the pump switches off. Surely that shouldn’t happen?
Post #1054130 8th Dec 2024 7:37am
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revd



Member Since: 20 Apr 2024
Location: England
Posts: 128
United Kingdom 
I would drop the tank, check for contamination and swap out the pump
Post #1054131 8th Dec 2024 8:07am
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