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lightning

Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2772

Short journeys in Puma 2.2

My day consists of journeys generally under five miles between customers, often less maybe a couple of miles.
l do get the odd longer journeys over five miles but rarely over around 40mph.

Time spent with each customer is usually under an hour which means the engine is usually still warm when l return to the vehicle.

So it's not just a short journey and then not used again, the vehicle is in use all day.

Will the EGR in the 2.2 cope with this. And if not, what would l have to do to keep the engine happy?

18th Nov 2024 9:12pm

90 Dreamer

Member Since: 13 Jul 2019
Location: Oop North
Posts: 2154

2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey

Pretty much no modern diesel ‘likes’ that type of use…..a decent ‘faster’ run of 10-15miles will help keep things clean know and again…

18th Nov 2024 9:15pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20371

The DPF is more of a concern $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪

18th Nov 2024 9:42pm

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 731

Re: Short journeys in Puma 2.2

lightning wrote:
My day consists of journeys generally under five miles between customers, often less maybe a couple of miles.
l do get the odd longer journeys over five miles but rarely over around 40mph.

Time spent with each customer is usually under an hour which means the engine is usually still warm when l return to the vehicle.

So it's not just a short journey and then not used again, the vehicle is in use all day.

Will the EGR in the 2.2 cope with this. And if not, what would l have to do to keep the engine happy?

I imaging it would be perfectly fine. Same engine used in the Ford Transit and Ford Ranger, 2 of the best selling vehicles in the UK I'd have thought. There must be 1000's of these being used daily in the way you describe.

Which is probably true for most modern diesel in the past 10-20 years or so. I know forum people like to moan that no diesel can manage short journeys, but the reality is, I suspect that most of the diesel do this kind of thing most of the time and are no problem for the very vast majority of people.

18th Nov 2024 10:22pm

Ianh

Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 2004

So,
How many years have you been driving like this?
How many miles a year do you do?
Do you do any longer regular high speed journeys as part of this driving pattern?
Have you had the amber or red DPF light come up on the dash?
Have you had any DTC’s relating to the EGR come up ?
Have you had and DTC’s relating to the DPF come up ?

With this data we will be better able to answer your question.

19th Nov 2024 1:53am

MK

Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2415

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White

Otto and diesel engines are designed to operate at running temperature for various reasons. Short trips fall in the category of severe driving conditions. Engine oil takes a lot more time to reach normal temperature compared to coolant. Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

19th Nov 2024 10:34am

lightning

Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2772

custom90 wrote:
The DPF is more of a concern

Sorry l messed up with my acronyms. I meant DPF and not EGR

19th Nov 2024 10:43am

lightning

Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2772

Ianh wrote:
So,
How many years have you been driving like this?
How many miles a year do you do?
Do you do any longer regular high speed journeys as part of this driving pattern?
Have you had the amber or red DPF light come up on the dash?
Have you had any DTC’s relating to the EGR come up ?
Have you had and DTC’s relating to the DPF come up ?

With this data we will be better able to answer your question.

l haven't got any data. l am looking at buying a Defender Puma 2.2 TDCi and am trying to find out how it might cope with this kind of use.

l've currently got a new (2022) Defender 3.0 diesel and that copes with it fine, done 17,000 miles over two years and had no issue at all.
But the new one has been designed around the DPF and it's known not to give issues.

19th Nov 2024 10:46am

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 731

If you only do 2-3 miles in a day, maybe as two journeys hours apart, likely more of an issue.

But if you are running about doing many journeys, even short ones in a day, the vehicle will get up to temp, as it won't have fully cooled down. Also if you go for a longer run at least sometimes. I really can't see it being an issue.

The 12 plate I mentioned in the other thread might be lowish mileage, but all of them have been "farm" miles pretty much. So short journeys in the local area or over the fields.

19th Nov 2024 11:01am

Ianh

Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 2004

lightning wrote:
Ianh wrote:
So,
How many years have you been driving like this?
How many miles a year do you do?
Do you do any longer regular high speed journeys as part of this driving pattern?
Have you had the amber or red DPF light come up on the dash?
Have you had any DTC’s relating to the EGR come up ?
Have you had and DTC’s relating to the DPF come up ?

With this data we will be better able to answer your question.

l haven't got any data. l am looking at buying a Defender Puma 2.2 TDCi and am trying to find out how it might cope with this kind of use.

l've currently got a new (2022) Defender 3.0 diesel and that copes with it fine, done 17,000 miles over two years and had no issue at all.
But the new one has been designed around the DPF and it's known not to give issues.

Ahh ok, the way your original post was worded lead me to believe you had a 2.2 Puma already.

Given the nature of your journeys, I.e predominantly very short start stop journeys , you will fill your DPF quickly and will significantly impede the possibility to reduce the build up in the DPF with passive and active regenerations. With that sort of cycle you will really need to take the vehicle on a 30min constant 60plus MPH journey at least once a week.

19th Nov 2024 12:22pm

Johan_B

Member Since: 20 Sep 2024
Location: Gothenburg
Posts: 19

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Tonga Green

The thing with the DPF is that it gets clogged after a while and then the engine has strategies to clean it. I don't know about the 2.2 specifically but usually the engine will 'regenerate' the filter by increasing the exhaust gas temperature to allow the soot particles in the filter to burn. This process is a bit time consuming as, 1) you'd like to start the process when the engine is warm already, 2) the materials can sometime be sensitive to rapid temperature changes, 3) the soot burning itself takes some time.
The engine will attempt to perform this when the filter has a high backpressure, and in your case it will fail over and over again (as for many others as well as many commutes are too short). Eventually the check engine light will light up.
If occasionally you mix in some longer trips this should not be a problem. I have the 2.4 so not sure how you can notice this on a Defender but on my previous car (Volvo V40 D4, MY2016) you could notice that the engine was attempting this. As I parked there was a certain smell from the exhaust and also the cooling fans was running for a few minutes to cool down the engine compartment.
This problem applies to all diesel cars with DPF but different OEM's might have different strategies to deal with it. But a 2.2 with DPF should have the same strategy regardless what vehicle it is in.

edit:

I didn't mean to repeat what Ianh wrote but with more words. I was just too slow.

19th Nov 2024 12:29pm

Puma_MOG

Member Since: 08 Sep 2017
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 184

2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

lightning wrote:

l haven't got any data. l am looking at buying a Defender Puma 2.2 TDCi and am trying to find out how it might cope with this kind of use.

l've currently got a new (2022) Defender 3.0 diesel and that copes with it fine, done 17,000 miles over two years and had no issue at all.
But the new one has been designed around the DPF and it's known not to give issues.

I drove my puma in the way you describe. I went on a long drive which induced a regen of the DPF and at the end it dropped from 90% to 15%. After under a dozen shorter drivers, in town and not many miles, the DPF climbed to 65%.

Truth be told, even on a long motorway journey the DPF fills up quickly. I started a 3.5 motorway drive at 35% and after just over an hour it got to 85% and then a regen took place.

Hope this helps

P

19th Nov 2024 8:54pm

lightning

Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2772

Thank you for the information.

Maybe l would be better looking for a 2.4 Puma. There's plenty of those about and they're cheaper.

20th Nov 2024 8:06am

DAZ110

Member Since: 06 Dec 2007
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 2039

2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Barolo Black

Beware of the higher road tax on certain 2.4’s

20th Nov 2024 8:37am

TexasRover

Member Since: 24 Nov 2022
Location: Paris
Posts: 1052

2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Chawton White

Diesels used to be the robust options, but they have come fragile. For the use you describe petrol would be better, which is going to be difficult to find obviously, unless you move away from Defenders.

There is the Td5 option (or 300tdi). Not sure how that fits in with your needs/expectations.

I confess that typically I drive my Td5 for too short a distance (shops and back etc). Had to the CT (MOT) and it failed on emissions ~3.5m-1 (whatever that is, but should be less than 3). Took it for a proper 60 mile hard run on the motorway and test came in at 0.17m-1. My 2015 Discovery 4 STDV6 tested at 0.10 m-1. Not that big a difference I thought?

20th Nov 2024 9:35am

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