 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > lmproving the Puma 2.2 tdci |
 
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| 90 Dreamer Member Since: 13 Jul 2019 Location: Oop North Posts: 2166   
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doesn't sound anything like my 2.2 90 (or my Brothers previous 2.4 110)
if anything they are fairly refined to drive engine wise |
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16th Nov 2024 2:49pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3312 
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From your description it sounds like a poorly car and nothing like my Puma. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm. |
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16th Nov 2024 3:01pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20444
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You are probably not so used to driving it, beyond that, it could have a faulty clutch switch causing the issues you mentioned.
That can give the impression of drivetrain slack, but there is also drive flange wear as well etc, as well as rear damper bush wear. No Guts, No Glory. 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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16th Nov 2024 5:46pm |
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| Jerry Member Since: 13 Nov 2015 Location: Cardiff Posts: 199 
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I have never had any ‘jolts’ but I would say there is an art in getting a smooth acceleration through the gears. If you change at too low a rev it can be a bit noisy from the transmission (not sure where exactly), but much better at higher revs. If you develop a sympathetic driving style and work with the rev hang it can be pretty smooth.
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16th Nov 2024 6:29pm |
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| LR Nuts Member Since: 10 Aug 2022 Location: UK Posts: 1143 
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Don't ask yourself, do I want to buy this Puma ......... more like, why is it up for sale
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16th Nov 2024 6:31pm |
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| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 917 
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They shouldn't be like that, a 'tight' puma has a nice driving experience.
It's the usual suspects that add up to drive train backlash. Drive flanges - UJ's Props - Output shaft - Clutch - Engine map All in their own big or small parts means a lot of slop and the resultant driving experience even at that low mileage. It's all been documented here on the forum over years and many of us have been on that journey with the ownership of our vehicles. It's not the end of the world and sounds like all things that can be sorted and the end result will be a pleasant drive. Without going into a mas diatribe the brief points are: Drive flange) The splines wear between them and the shafts. This small amount of play is 'amplified' by the nature of the drivetrain (gearing etc). Pulling the little rubber caps off may well greet you with the red rusty dust which confirms all, And the wear was such an extent that even the 16MY Defenders went back to one piece shafts by JLR themselves in the factory. UJ's Props) Again spline wear is possible and uj wear if not maintained correctly and greased regularly. Many a 'car based' modern garage seem to have forgotten that a grease gun was once a common thing. Output shaft) The fabled often dry splined connection from the gearbox to Transfer box, Having learnt nothing from the old LT77 days this achilles heel is again widely documented with a few different fixes available, But on the whole a worn one will give some 'lash' in the system. Clutch) Clutches over the puma era's have varied in the type of cheese they are made from. Mostly loose springs than friction failure but none the less a known issue. Again there is updated versions out there from the aftermarket to solve this. Engine) The 2.2 had been commented on it's unique throttle map and it has it's quirks. It takes me a mile or two to relearn it after a week or so of hopping in and out of other brands of vehicle. But the hiccup - kangaroo is again a thing with them. Noting that there is a clutch switch too which means it knows if you are changing gear or not and adjusts said response. The 'celebration' models whilst only suppose to be the autobiography model had a 150HP map and this also changed the throttle mapping too and gave a better drive. Such companies like Bell auto's and Alive tuning took this and with some more refinement produced their own maps and cure these hiccups and make for a nice drive. But again it reflects in the slack (or removal thereoff) in the drive train. HTH Also can be found on Fb, Ytube, Insta & Twitter @4WDSouthwest |
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16th Nov 2024 7:01pm |
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| lightning Member Since: 23 Apr 2009 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2841
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It probably needs a new clutch and the LOF output shaft fitting.
l drove a 110,000 mile 2.4 Puma recently and it had these parts recently fitted. lt was absolutely lovely to drive, with no slack in the transmission at all. |
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17th Nov 2024 8:52pm |
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| Andyslandytd5 Member Since: 06 Nov 2021 Location: Southampton Posts: 22 
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I changed from a TD5 90 to a 2015 110 2.2 UXS with 48k on it back in May. I had all those issues you mentioned and I have cured virtually all of it now.
First I changed over to one piece rear half shafts, made a difference straight away. As mentioned I had the red dust under the plastic end caps too. Next and at some expense I decided to change the clutch as the springs were rattling I booked it in to have a LOF Powerspec clutch put in and a LOF Output shaft at the same time. It used up my chassis treatment budget but has made a massive difference. The mechanic showed me the old output shaft when I went in to collect it and its was on its last legs with some teeth missing. Glad I did it despite the expense and hopefully future proofed for years to come. 2015 Puma 2.2 XS Utility Station Wagon - 2024 - Present Previous LR 2004 TD5 90 XS Station Wagon - 2019-2024 2003 TD5 90 G4 LE - 2009-2010 1990 Ninety 6.2 V8 Station Wagon - 2006-2009 |
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18th Nov 2024 2:13pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
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I would beg to differ, the description sounds bang on for a Puma. They are very jerky to drive. They don't like you to trail the throttle when changing gear and you can't rush the gear changes in the lower gears. |
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18th Nov 2024 3:59pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
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Obviously over the internet this is super hard to diagnose if there is an issue or not. Best bet would be to go and drive another one, even one you aren't interested it, but it'll give you a good benchmark comparison. So if it is the same or worse than this one, you know that this one is probably normal. And I would massively disagree with almost all the replies here. They are not smooth and renown for being quite jerky to drive. In the family my Uncle has 2 Puma's on the farm. Both bought brand new. One is a 12 plate that has about 16,000 miles on it (low mileage). The other is a 65 plate with about 12,000 miles on it. They drive identical in terms of gear change and drivetrain and both are jerky as f***! This is easy to compare to other non Puma Land Rover on the farm and in the family, which currently totals somewhere in the region of 10 other Land Rovers. We have also been in and driven many other Puma's as well as knowing lots of people with Puma's in the local Land Rover club, of which we are all active members and my Uncle and my parents were founding members of. I'm not saying a Puma is terrible and you can learn to drive around the limitations, but compared to an LT-77 or R380 equipped model, the gear change is not smooth and nor is the throttle. I've not heard anyone successfully solving these issues either. A remap will not improve it. The 65 plate mentioned above was remapped with some other mods to 190bhp by Alive Tuning. They really don't like you trailing the throttle pedal when you change gear, i.e. even just resting your foot on the throttle pedal at the top of the travel, something you can do with other vehicles such as any other Land Rover 90 prior to the Puma or even your Jimny. If you lift your foot clear off the throttle pedal while you are changing gear it'll improve it, but 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd will require practice and patient to get smooth. The gearbox shouldn't really be noisy aka "lash" as you say. But if you make the changes jerky, then yes it will seem like it is. |
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18th Nov 2024 4:23pm |
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| Andyslandytd5 Member Since: 06 Nov 2021 Location: Southampton Posts: 22
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For the most part I agree with you. Mine is much better now I have made those updates but still not smooth in the lower gears especially when cold. But as you say you just get used to it and learn how to manage it 2015 Puma 2.2 XS Utility Station Wagon - 2024 - Present
Previous LR 2004 TD5 90 XS Station Wagon - 2019-2024 2003 TD5 90 G4 LE - 2009-2010 1990 Ninety 6.2 V8 Station Wagon - 2006-2009 |
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19th Nov 2024 8:48am |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2656 
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I would mirror the OP’s experience, have had several brand new Tdcis at work and they have all had awful jerky gear changes and slack. Fine once at speed.
And inexplicably had one 2.4 Tdci 90 (60-plate) with 10k miles on it which was a joy to drive and had none of these issues! As a general rule most things about the vehicles got cheaper and more poorly engineered as time went on. |
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19th Nov 2024 9:04am |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 498  
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^^ |
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25th Nov 2024 2:38pm |
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| macfrank Member Since: 05 Nov 2015 Location: somewhere in the north Posts: 1081 
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Not mine. Except for traffic jams in high range where I wished throttle would give finer control, I have nothing to complain about. But maybe it's expectations. Also I tried to learn how to let go of the clutch to minimise impact on the springs - still not satisfied, though. I also have no need to rush it in the Defender  |
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25th Nov 2024 5:53pm |
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