 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > 2.2 clutch problem @ 150K |
 
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| wyvern Member Since: 13 Dec 2009 Location: Cornwall Posts: 2101   
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there are many posts on here to explain the issue.
It sounds like your slave/master cylinder has gone which requires the clutch to be removed to fix. The clutch is probably ready for replacement at the same time, and as you will have that part of the drive train open ... Poppy - TDCI (Puma) 110XS 2.2 - Camper conversion - see the build here - https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic56530.html Elgar -TDCI(Puma) 110XS Dormobile - now sold Devon & Cornwall 4x4 Response - DC126  |
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13th Nov 2024 9:02am |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 1039  
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While it sounds likely that it is an hydraulic systems, you would think that the pedal going down and doing nothing mean there is no more fluid as it has all leaked out.
Also I though the defender had a tow limit of 3.6T with the correct license. Having lived in the USA where with my Disco3/4 or Range Rover I could pull any car on a decent trailer, now in Europe I find I can tow nothing anymore (on my standard car license). |
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13th Nov 2024 9:04am |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 479 
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Yes, Pedal going up and down is related to missing liquid (which is not the case) or cylinder moving around freely (i.e. missing rubber gasket).
And as the liquid has become black like the rubber, one can easily figure out where the missing rubber bas gone ... Last edited by Julie on 13th Nov 2024 9:49am. Edited 1 time in total |
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13th Nov 2024 9:36am |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 511
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With no loss of fluidobvious from anywhere I'm thinking a defective driven plate.. spring dislodged and preventing proper clutch operation..
That's what let go on mine..prevented gear selection.when I dropped the box one of the springs just fell out.. |
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13th Nov 2024 9:46am |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 1994
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My friend had they same issue with his 2.4, as an attempt at a cheap fix I changed the master cylinder, which is fiddly but can be done without pedal box removal and the MC was less than £30 . Unfortunately it did not fix the issue as it was the Slave cylinder. so transfer and gearbox out , new clutch, slave cylinder and output shaft while in there.
Note there was no fluid loss due to failure, just pedal to floor with no resistance. So worth changing the MC first to see if that’s a fix, but most likely it will be the slave.  |
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13th Nov 2024 10:18am |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 511
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As to the black fluid.. that's was an ongoing mystery to me...after I changed the complete clutch system..mechanical and hydraulic..the debris just kept appearing in the reservoir for about a year after the work..it does appear to have eased off now with the fluid staying cleaner for longer periods🤞 Like yours my fluid was black at the time of failure as well..think i had around 45000 miles on the clock when it gave up.. https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic89524.html |
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13th Nov 2024 10:19am |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 1994
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If you do end up replacing the clutch an upgrade to consider that helps bleeding is the Pioneer 4×4 Braided Clutch hose. https://lofclutches.com/shop/clutches/defe...d5-300tdi/
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13th Nov 2024 11:13am |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 479
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I moved the pedal back and forth several times. If the master was in good working condition, it would have pumped at least 1x its own volume into the system. So the DOT4 équivalent of one scotch would have left the system / the faulty slave. I've looked for traces of fluids under the car, under the bellhouse. Nothing. In the container on the master no fluid has disappeared. I think its level is even higher than before. Too high in my eyes. And if the pedal is pressed, won't the level go down if the master pumps fluid into the system ? But I didn't see it changing. It's just like any move of the pedal is not in contact with the hydraulic system And the explanation I have is a défective master and some fluid found its way back into the container... Last edited by Julie on 13th Nov 2024 1:26pm. Edited 2 times in total |
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13th Nov 2024 12:40pm |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 479
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I had the Ashcroft spline changed this year in late summer. One of the big three here in France did that job. 5 mecanics who work only on Series and Defenders... Talking about the clutch when I left the truck, they confirmed that the clutch is in good working condition : no noise, a bit heavier to engage but within the range of other Pumas. And that's my impression, too So they advised me to have it replaced anyway in 2025 or 2026 |
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13th Nov 2024 12:59pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 511
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There will be no change in level in a master cylinder reservoir as you press the pedal on a properly functioning clutch..the valve at the head of the cylinder closes nearly instantly as you touch the pedal isolating the resevoir.. if you have displaced fluid from the system then as you release the pedal the valve will open and the reservoir level will drop to replace the loat fluid.. |
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13th Nov 2024 1:49pm |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 479
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You're right. But, if the slave lost DOT4, the master reservoir would have replaced it anyway. Probably only once, because then the faulty slave allows air to enter the system (which takes the place of the missing fluid).
I wonder if you won't be able to empty the whole DOT4 reservoir with a working master and a faulty slave. Just like it will empty in a leaking system. It's gonna take some time for sure. |
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13th Nov 2024 2:08pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20308
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I think, that a spring may have came out of the friction plate.
That will block drive in a sporadic way, and affect the hydraulic system. It depends where the sling goes, or when and what damage it may have or what it causes. Based on likelihood of possibility, you’ll know if it still continues if the MC is replaced. If the MC is over ten years old then might be worth changing, but if it’s only say up to 6 years then unlikely in my opinion. There could have been a lot of excess drivetrain movement with the load, especially loading and unloading, and if the springs were loose previously, this is where one may have gone walkies. ⭐️⭐️God Bless the USA 🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⭐️⭐️ |
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13th Nov 2024 10:28pm |
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| BrunoJ Member Since: 14 Sep 2019 Location: Stavanger Posts: 75 
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I would say you are quite lucky. I had exactly the same issue at 107kkm, few years ago. Ended up with replacing full set plus front shaft piece, as all had to be disassembled. Not the best idea with the trailer, but I did manage to drive the car without the clutch to the service, changing gears with "a feeling"
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13th Nov 2024 10:56pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8013  
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Likely seal in master cylinder.
Change that First. It's simple and cheap. If problem perists, split gearbox and engine and investigate slave and friction plate. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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14th Nov 2024 7:01am |
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