 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > 2.4 Puma (2007) Not Starting |
 
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| jim4244 Member Since: 13 Apr 2014 Location: Bedfordshire Posts: 780   
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Morning
Is your starter motor clicking when you turn the key? If you are getting a click or "thunk" then my best guess would be stuck starter motor or battery. For the starter motor a sharp hit with a piece of 4X2 sometimes jolts it free. With the battery, If you can find anyone with jump leads and try a quick jump start. I know that we have a few forum members down in Somerset / West Country so when it reaches a more reasonable hour you may find that one is near to you who might be willing to pop out and help. Maybe put your What 3 Words location up? Jim |
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29th Sep 2024 3:40am |
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| jim4244 Member Since: 13 Apr 2014 Location: Bedfordshire Posts: 780
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I take it that you are not a member of Green Flag, the AA or similar?
Jim |
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29th Sep 2024 6:33am |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 1051  
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You tried prodding, now you need to systematically diagnose:
Symptom: No starter motor action. How is your battery? The start gets permanent 12v straight from the battery on the big terminal. Is there 12 v there? Then it gets a crank 12v signal on the smaller connection which operates the solenoid that starts the starter. Does it get voltage. If yes then most likely starter kaput. If no I would suspect the new immobilizer is suspect, which normally also interrupts the running of the engine so jumping start probably not going to work. If you have limited skills and experience, recovery is probably your best option. Is there no farmer that can pull you out of that field? Roadside recovery normally don't venture off tarmac. |
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29th Sep 2024 7:50am |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515 
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you would have to suspect the immobiliser work you have had done.. most probably one of its aims was to disable the starting circuit, by possibly not allowing the starter motor relay to operate.. I think that is normally allowed to switch via the ecu..
it sounds like you have a battery that should be capable of doing something if its solenoid did get a feed so you are back to that starter relay ..I don't know its location but its likely fed by a largish fuse (30A )which if gone would prevent the starter motor solenoid getting a feed...worth checking... if the starter motor is anything like the one on the 2.2l engine its buried low down and not what id want to be prodding around the contacts with anything metallic, without having a good view of what I was doing.. hope you get sorted, and hopefully get the installing firm to resolve the issue |
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29th Sep 2024 10:34am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20363
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Check battery clamps are tight and that grounds on the transmission are tight especially for the battery negative.
Failing that, you’ll have to get someone like the RAC to recover you, even if you don’t have cover you can still request it but you then have to cover costs. If you have a duff starter, then you can be bump started. Clicking is normally a very high impedance ground or live direct from the battery, in other words a poor connection often caused by a loose connection, there is a fuse in the positive post casing on the battery as well, all connections need to be secure both live and ground. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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29th Sep 2024 12:40pm |
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| Tea_and_Biology Member Since: 03 Jun 2024 Location: Oxford Posts: 11 
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Thanks for all the comments and suggestions so far! Much appreciated.
Okay, so ignition on, tested the battery (connections are tight, and all fuses are fine) and the red/white wire into the relay, and brown/red wire post-relay. 12V on all.  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge I don't really know what these are (except reading other threads, they're important); the circuit schematics I have aren't colour-coordinated with the wiring, nor do the wires seem to have codes printed on them. I'm assuimg the red/white is C0151-85/NW.4.0D (?) coming from the switch-ignition and the brown/red is C0151-87/NR.2.5D (?) which eventually goes to the motor itself? Are there schematics / diagrams for the earth connections? I'd like to check, clean, and reattach all of these but I don't know what I'm looking for. They're just black wires connected via bolts to bare metal? In other news, apparently there's a black reset button on the green AS10 box that might be worth a push; best advice for getting access, or must I continue to remove the entire dashboard? Can't quite reach it after removing the front speaker. Click image to enlarge Also tried replacing the battery in the key fob. Alas, no green flag and given I'm on private land without help for a bump/tow still, can't get it onto the road for breakdown cover. Last edited by Tea_and_Biology on 29th Sep 2024 3:20pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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29th Sep 2024 3:09pm |
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| jbcollier Member Since: 29 Apr 2024 Location: Edmonton AB Posts: 89  
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12.1 resting voltage at the battery? It is dead/discharged and you need a boost.
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29th Sep 2024 3:19pm |
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| Tea_and_Biology Member Since: 03 Jun 2024 Location: Oxford Posts: 11
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Ahhhh, forgive my ignorance; I had assumed given the A/C, GPS tracker, radio and everything else was working, that the battery was fine. Hadn't clocked that things can still run below 12.6V or whatever is usually sufficient to turn the starter. I have jump leads and a donor vehicle; should be okay. Fingers crossed!
Thanks! ___ Update: Wouldn't jump start, and slowly charging via jump leads for several hours isn't particularly viable. Will dissassemble and walk into the village with the battery for a proper charge tomorrow morning. Cheers! Last edited by Tea_and_Biology on 29th Sep 2024 6:19pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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29th Sep 2024 3:28pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20363
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Yeah, battery is on about 10% of its capacity so it seems you’ve had some excessive battery drain at rest.
Probably caused by what was fitted. Click image to enlarge Once sorted you’ll need to have the source of the parasitic current drain at rest, tracked down by testing. For now you need a battery jump start. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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29th Sep 2024 4:28pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515
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If jump starting doesn't work..ie not turning over you are likely back to the failure of the supply from the starter relay to the starter motor solenoid..
The switching of which is ecu controlled i believe.. |
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29th Sep 2024 7:00pm |
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| Tea_and_Biology Member Since: 03 Jun 2024 Location: Oxford Posts: 11
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Battery charged; still nothing. The starter relay in the fuse box is no longer clicking, but there's plenty of current running through at least to the red/brown wire.
Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge How would I check there's current running to the starter motor itself? I can vaguely see a red positive terminal and another black wire (earth?) screwing into it; poke it there? Apparently there's should also be another smaller wire running into it, but I can't see it - any insight into what it'd look like (colour)? Whacking the starter with a 2x4 didn't help. The local garage helped charge the battery, but they're undermanned and chock busy for days and can't get out to bump start nor tow my vehicle, even into the road for breakdown cover. Hmmm... |
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30th Sep 2024 1:49pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515
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Hmm the garage are been really helpful 😫
Might pay to seek out a local farmer to get you on to tarmac.. The back of the starter will have 3 terminals..one will be the connection to the battery and alternator and will be in the form of aa heavy duty metal bus bar its covered by red plastic cover usually.... the other large stud will have a braided wire running into the starter motor from the solenoid.. that becomes live if the solenoid pulls in.. There is a smaller 3rd terminal which is connected to the starter relay and actuates the solenoid..that's the stud or connection you need to establish is or isn't getting a supply when you try to start....i think its path to that stud is from round the back os the inlet manifold.. all earth's are through to the block I think you really need to know where this 3rd party immobiliser is connected into the circut or at least contact them and ask if it is designed to prevent starting.. Good luck.. |
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30th Sep 2024 2:04pm |
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| Tea_and_Biology Member Since: 03 Jun 2024 Location: Oxford Posts: 11
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Alrighty; thanks for the help. Shall go digging.
I did disconnect the third-party immobiliser and GPS tracker completely; though perhaps during installation the engineer didn't quite wrap a vehicle cable fully or knock loose an earth or something, hence some excessive discharge from the battery. I'll otherwise walk into the village and ask around if anyone has a tow rope and a spare few minutes. At least once on the road I can then get breakdown assistance and a lift several hundred miles back home! And to think I was supposed to have finished this camper conversion and be heading off to Dakar this coming weekend... ! |
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30th Sep 2024 2:22pm |
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| revd Member Since: 20 Apr 2024 Location: England Posts: 116
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have you spoken to the tracker-immobiliser installer, seems quite a coincidence that the problem started soon after installation
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30th Sep 2024 2:31pm |
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