 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Front/Rear wheel bearing nut conversion |
 
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| Will@LRW Member Since: 04 May 2019 Location: UK Posts: 181   
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I'll be exclusively using the single nuts from now on. Every year or two a couple of the hubs on my 300Tdi (with the double nuts) will have play (<4000 miles), and I always re-tighten following the workshop procedure. So I constantly seem to have long brake pedal travel. It may be cheap lock washers that don't grip and let the nuts loosen, or it may be operator error and I need to remove myself from the equation!
I was surprised last year at just how affordable the spacers are now, and the one that came off is likely the one that will go back on. The double nuts are still the pragmatic solution for a roadside repair, but I'd be starting an extended journey with the single nuts. It's easy to swap from one to the other with the same tools you'd use for each (e.g. 52mm socket and breaker bar). Good video here from trailerfitter on the subject ?si=l4qdKLU3LTpAtqy- LR Workshop Find a Defender's history and spec: https://defender.lrworkshop.com |
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22nd Jun 2024 9:47am |
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| Johan_B Member Since: 20 Sep 2024 Location: Gothenburg Posts: 25  
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I have started to develop a genuine distaste for the one nut system over the last couple of month. I think it is mainly due to that I don't have the proper tools for the job. Only a box socket in my tool box at the moment and that won't go a long way when trying to undo a nut that has been sitting there untouched for 17 years. But also due the risk of damaging the stub axle when undoing the nut.
Regarding durability going from my own experience I am not sure the spacer system add life to the bearings, not because it is not superior to the two nut system to set the correct pre-load, but because the weakest link seams to be the gaskets/seals. If you get water and dirt in to the bearings they will give up. I bought my current 110 with 130000 km on the clock and both sides in the rear had been replaced earlier and soon my front left gave up, all rusted and sounding like a duck.  On my previous 110, also 2007 Puma with similar mileage I think I replaced 2. Very dirty and rusted.
Even if we could give the bearings eternal life, at some point you'll need to change the brake discs, as I have to now, or get to the swivel, or replace the CV-joint. To then need to have 1 or 2 spare stub axles, just in case, just because of the one nut seems ridiculous. Maybe not if you can have parts delivered the next day but not everyone has that luxury. LR dealers in Sweden seem to have no parts in stock and for them to get them from LR has a 3-4 weeks lead time, so that is out of the question. Ordering directly from one of the many suppliers in UK still has a week of lead time. Regarding adjustment on the 2 nut system. I did it on my 300 Tdi but only if I detected play shortly after changing them. To me that indicated that I hadn't loaded them correctly, the disadvantage of that system. But if your bearings starts to have play after years in service, I am with Retroanaconda, they can't be adjusted and need to be replaced. For these reasons I now sit on a cache of two-nuts and lock washers to use when I replace the brakes. Sourced them from Paddock together with everything else, didn't think there was any dubious quality nuts but upon reading here it seems some are better than others. What should I be looking for? |
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21st Oct 2024 9:19am |
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| Merlin Member Since: 30 Oct 2010 Location: Newmarket Posts: 981 
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I changed to the two nut set-up years ago and I think it's a myth that this is better.
I've changed back now as adjusting doesn't seem to make any difference to how long the bearing last. My advice is save your money. Peter |
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21st Oct 2024 12:17pm |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5720 
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Switched all mine across to two nut system. Far better if you know what you are doing, especially if doing it whilst curb side. I hate the idea of a stake nut, and the winding off of a nut along a thread that has a damaged thread. Jus5 waiting for the stub axles to be damaged.
These are a nice kit. https://www.triple4engineering.co.uk/Land-...ent-Spec-1 |
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21st Oct 2024 7:02pm |
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| Johan_B Member Since: 20 Sep 2024 Location: Gothenburg Posts: 25
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I loosened the nut at work tonight and it took an effort even with proper tools.
 Click image to enlarge I then spent some time cleaning the axle and nut until I could thread it with fingers only. Axle seems fine. I think one can be happy with both systems but you’ll need proper tools for the job. If going on a long trip with the one nut system I would probably replace the nuts prior. Then you can handle them curb side with a torque wrench of the right size. For now, I will be converting. |
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21st Oct 2024 8:12pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8045 
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Why can't you use a spacer and the double nut method to secure it?. No thread damage then on hub removal. Or can ypu not get the torque on single thin nut? Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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21st Oct 2024 8:36pm |
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| Johan_B Member Since: 20 Sep 2024 Location: Gothenburg Posts: 25
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I don't think that would work. Too few threads in contact for the axial force. Risk to damage the threads as you torque it.
But what about staking the nut just a bit on the outer edge? I can't see a need to go bananas with the staking. The nut is already torqued to 210Nm, with my limited real life experience I can't see how it will come loose even without staking. There is no torque effecting it during operation, only vibrations and the axial force from the compressed spacer is considerable. That would minimize the risk of thread damage. Any thoughts? The remaining problem then is the high torque required, especially to break a nut that has been there for a while. I estimate that I applied 800-1000Nm to break it yesterday and I needed the extension bar for the first full turn. Also, to prevent this debacle: Click image to enlarge I am thinking of adding a line to the maintenance schedule every second year or so: Undo drive member, clean and change gasket, grease splines. Undo hub nut and lubricate to prevent rust. It might even prolong the life of the bearings. |
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22nd Oct 2024 9:15am |
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| rustandoil Member Since: 08 Sep 2012 Location: Cotswolds Posts: 743  
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This just popped up on my YouTube feed
?si=l39LB4yrQsuIjH5y |
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22nd Oct 2024 12:42pm |
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| John P Member Since: 26 Dec 2013 Location: West Sussex Posts: 319 
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I have since changed over. When I removed the original staked nut on all four stub axles, the threads were all slightly damaged. Therefore I could not spin the new nuts on easily. They would have gone on with a slight bit of force, but was not to my liking. Rather than try and clean the threads, I replaced all 4 stub axles at the same time.
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22nd Oct 2024 12:50pm |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5720
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I have done spacer and twin nut setup on the front of mine whilst between swapping across. Was doing other maintenance and not all the parts. Worked ok
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22nd Oct 2024 1:26pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17418 
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^^ Agree 100%. Imagine trying to change a wheel-bearing at the roadside with the stake nut system. 
Why would you want to do that? The whole idea of the two-nut system is that it is infinitely adjustable, so there is no need whatsoever for the spacer between the bearings. In practice you could do it, since the fitting of the second (or jam) nut would negate the need for the massive torque specified for the single nut. However I fail to see any advantage in having the spacer since it defeats the object of having the classic two-nut set-up. It is worth bearing in mind that the two-nut system worked perfectly on Land-Rovers from 1947 until around 2000, and was also used on virtually every other vehicle on the road during the same period. Nothing significant has changed except the pressure to reduce manufacturing costs, and there is no engineering reason whatsoever to change to a single nut system. It is, as far as I can determine, a decision based purely on ex-factory build costs, and certainly not on whole-life costs. |
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22nd Oct 2024 2:00pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8045
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Why spacer and two nuts?
One it's allows for someones inability to set wheel bearing wrong by having correct spacer Two you don't damage the thread. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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22nd Oct 2024 7:36pm |
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| Andy RV Member Since: 26 Apr 2014 Location: Somewhere Posts: 65
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I’ve just replaced the rear bearings on my puma after 96k miles as to my ear they were getting a little noisey at 60+ mph and swapped to the two nut approach.
I knocked a chisel into the flattened area of the single nut to release it and it came off very easily. I assume that others mentioning thread damage are doing the same and not just mauling it off without opening up the collapsed area??? |
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27th Oct 2024 7:03am |
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| Esben Kold Member Since: 14 Oct 2023 Location: Horsens Posts: 23  
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Hi, I just finished a complete front axle rebuild today. The truck is transformed by the way. No more drivetrain slack (compared to before. Probably still a million times more than a brand new modern car), pulling to the side when braking or clonking noises at low speed. The steering is way more firm and precise. Especially the top pin bearings in the swivel ball assembly were worn and almost collapsed. The truck has done 208000 km.
In the process I naturally replaced the wheel bearings, although no sign of wear where displayed prior to the rebuild. I have to admit I am a little confused by this discussion. Everyone are entitled to their subjective opinion and I respect that. This is my first and only Defender so I have not owned a model with the two nut setup, but I found it quite convenient to undo the 52 mm nut and both stub axles survived without harm. I cannot see why there is any difference to undoing any other bolt. Why would it damage the threads? My 9 year old son undid bolts, with an extension bar, since he is very Defender enthusiastic. I ended up reusing one of the stub axles as it did not suffer from any corrosion. So removing was easy, refitting just as. It did 208000 km. on the originals (I have the entire, very well documented service history of the one owner car and they should be original. Looked that way to) without showing symptoms of wear. I’m my book that is a pretty good setup. What am I missing here? What is better with the two nut setup? |
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17th Nov 2024 6:54pm |
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