 | Home > Wheels & Tyres > 235/85 or 265/75 mud terrain tyre options |
 
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 752  
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Personally I find narrow tyres work better for most off road situations. So a 235/85 or a 7.50 would be my choice. But it does depend.
As for actual tread patterns. That also depends on what is available in your market. I’d guess in NZ you’ll get tyres we just don’t have here in the U.K. and vice versa. The BFG KM3 seems very good but quite pricey. The Yokohama GEOLANDAR X-M/T G005 is probably one of the best mud tyres I’ve seen that isn’t a remould and quite an extreme open block design. |
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18th Jun 2024 2:43am |
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| Grouse Member Since: 16 Apr 2012 Location: on the hill Posts: 521 |
Having had both 265/75/16 Muds, and now 255/85/16 Muds - I’d go for the 255’s, more ground clearance, they grip better in mud, are quieter than the 265’s, better turning circle as you can wind your steering stops in a bit and look far better filling the arch.
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18th Jun 2024 5:03am |
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| AndyNZ Member Since: 07 Oct 2022 Location: Blenheim Posts: 7  
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Yeah I definitely am leaning toward a 235 or 255 width. Just been out tonight and the farm is a bog, slipping a bit too much for my liking so it's time to upgrade (got about 5mm tread left).
We have access to most common tyres here - can definitely get the BFG KM3 and Geolander. Others on my list include the Toyo Open Country MT and Fallen Wildpeak MT - any experience with these? 2002 Defender TD5 110 Epsom Green @giuseppethedefender |
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18th Jun 2024 9:58am |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 752
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Compared to the KM3 and the Yokohama the Toyo is more of an aggressive AT rather than a full on mud terrain. I’d say quite a lot less capable in mud. But quite a good durable all round tyre.
I also have General Grabber X3’s. I’d say better than the Toyo in the mud but still a league behind the BFG and 2 leagues behind the Yokohama. |
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18th Jun 2024 10:09am |
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| Chris86 Member Since: 15 Jul 2014 Location: South Yorks Posts: 789 
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Big fan of the Toyos, as an all rounder they are hard to beat, especially at the price point- only slight criticism would be they are quite pressure sensitive, it took a bit of time and experimentation to get the best out of them on our L200
We run them on both of our training vehicles, having taken BFGs off in both cases……….. I was involved in some benchmark testing with 7 different MT tyres (Snow& ice, mud, sand & gravel, wet road and dry road), all different brands, same size, same vehicle and the BFGs were consistently middle performing in off road testing. On road they didn’t fare well, wet road handing and wet braking performance in particular. The new Kumho mud fared very well throughout the testing, only really struggling when we deliberately pushed to failure point by completely saturating the tyre with water, then clay and driving onto a sandstone slab. If mud performance is important the Bridgestone Dueller MT performed REALLY well in all the muddy & soft sections, but was less good on road and in the snow. Chris |
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18th Jun 2024 11:13am |
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| shaynecm Member Since: 10 May 2024 Location: Norwich Posts: 63
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not sure if you get them in NZ but CST Land Dragon's for me for Mud Terrains - insta turbos are cheaper alts but dont last/wear as well.
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18th Jun 2024 11:22am |
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| MarkBrown Member Since: 03 Oct 2022 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 475  
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My experience with MT’s is that they’re all much the same, with the exception of Insa which were loud and wore down very quickly - the side walls got punctured on two, which thankfully saw the end of them!
The ones I liked the least were Bfg MT’s because I found they weren’t good on the wet tarmac. I’ve had Khumo, Cooper, various unbranded new ones and currently Toyo Open Country MT in the 255 85 16 size which suits the 110 well. |
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18th Jun 2024 12:45pm |
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| Grouse Member Since: 16 Apr 2012 Location: on the hill Posts: 521 |
I’ve got Toyo 255/85/16 and having had BFG I’d buy the Toyo again - the tread is just as aggressive, they are quieter and they handle far better in the wet - plus my experience of BFG is they always perish prematurely
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18th Jun 2024 8:37pm |
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| Mdm Member Since: 11 Sep 2013 Location: Sunny Lancashire Posts: 1625
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im a long term fan of bfg but prices in the last few years have meant looking elsewhere.
currently have a set of toyo muds and yokohama go16 all terrains which both very good. |
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19th Jun 2024 7:50am |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 752
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Having grown up on a farm and been driving Land Rovers since I was about 11 years old and also having done a lot of Land Rover trials. I’d say there is a HUGE difference in mud terrain tyres ability off road. At some events in the wet, some vehicles have been unable to drive around the site or struggle to get to start gate. While other vehicles shod with a different MT have plenty of grip and traction to easily drive about. Unless you see it in person it is probably hard to comprehend. But the difference is simply massive. Terrain type makes a big difference too. Wet grass, if it is sandy or clay soil etc. Some tyres will work well on some types of mud and terribly on others. On road can vary too. But to some degree I’d say here they are more even. And many people end up comparing old worn out knackered tyres to brand new ones. Giving a skewed opinion of the difference. Older BFG’s have a rep for going hard over time. When they do this they are rubbish on wet tarmac. But new ones should be completely different. The KM3 also uses a special compound to improve tarmac performance. Apart from being able to “feel” the larger lugs and slight noise increase I’d say they are as good on road as the KO2 All Terrain is. Compacted snow and ice performance probably not as good. But arguably still better in fresh snow. With regards to the Toyo MT. I’ve run them and know people that run them. As an overlanding or touring tyre they are a great mix. But perform way below many other MT’s once you get into some proper wet mud. This is a real world example. But I’ve observed and experienced the same many times with multiple vehicles and drivers running the Toyo off road: ?si=P2hKocmswxETzfhi In this case the Toyos made the vehicle very difficult to drive around the site and we’re far less capable on section to the point of the vehicle getting stuck were other people could drive straight through. On the same terrain the KM3 would perform better and we were actually setting up at this site only 6-8 weeks ago with a vehicle fitted with the Yokohama’s I mentioned earlier. Truly staggeringly great performance on this terrain and despite being super wet they hardly slipped or span a wheel all day. |
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19th Jun 2024 8:56am |
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| AndyNZ Member Since: 07 Oct 2022 Location: Blenheim Posts: 7
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Really interesting insights here! Sorry, fell off the radar momentarily and haven't made the call on tyres yet...
The BFG KM1 I'm on now looks quite different to the KM3s, and more perhaps like the Wildpeak MTs or Toyo MTs (without siping). Being on the (worn) KM originals now I actually find the drive quite well for my day to day which involves a mix of gravel, grass, clay dirt and country roads. Haven't slipped in them on tarmac, but that's because I know I'm driving a 2ton slug so I tend to just crank up the music and enjoy the ride at ease. So, noise isn't a huge concern as long as I retain that on-road traction. We do a bit of overlanding on tarmac and trails also which I imagine would eat away at an MT pretty quickly. Sounds like the Toyo's are a good option, as a bunch of other quite heavy hitting options there. I think being realistic I need a less aggressive mud, or aggressive A/T to get me around MOST of the year and just to either avoid heavy clay/rain mud days and survive on a tyre that will last a lot longer with regular road driving. Chicken Drumstick your real world testing there is invaluable-thanks for sharing! This is particularly interesting, and of course there are trade-offs here:
Options standing in 235/85r16: - BFG KM3 - Just because I'm on the KMs and never had an issue. - Toyo Open Country MT - seem like a strong/affordable BFG alternative and popular/easy to come by. - Yokohama Geolandar X-At® G016 - Pops up in lots of forums, seems to have reasonable siping too. - Falken Wildpeak MT - Less aggressive MT, tread pattern looks good and reasonable reviews. - Cooper STT Pro - Seems like lots of Defender's run these. Just saw the Rugged Treks, could be an option as the spacing looks like an RT tyre a bit. I have to say I'm interested in the possibility of trying an aggressive A/T and testing it this winter to see if it can handle farm life. 90% of the year we are dry-as-a-bone so little issue with mud, and the benefits of an A/T on snow/icy roads for skiing may be better anyway. If it doesn't work out it should be easy enough to sell a set of A/Ts barely used too to go back to MTs... If anyone has any aggressive A/T or lighter MT tyres to look at that would be great too  2002 Defender TD5 110 Epsom Green @giuseppethedefender |
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1st Jul 2024 12:49am |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 752
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On a couple of my vehicles I run the Maxxis Wormdrive AT tyre. Pretty aggressive for an AT. I’ve done best part of 25,000 miles on a set fitted to my JB74w Jimny. I was so impressed with them that I bought a set to go on the 1989 Ninety which just gets used for running about. Heading to the farm and green laning. No serious off roading. They have been great on that too. Really very good road manners wet or dry.
They aren’t 3 peak rated. But sometimes I suspect this is more about costs than anything. I don’t see how a BFG KO2 would work any better in the snow/ice, yet the BFG is 3 peak rated. I like the BFG too, my brother has a set on his 90. But we have both concluded that the extra money the KO2 costs over the Wormdrive isn’t worth it and that the KM3 MT runs almost as good as the KO2 on road that he wishes he’d opted for them instead. I have driven the Wormdrive in the snow. However, the snow we typically get in the part of the U.K. I’m in may differ to lots of other places in the world. Firstly we rarely get snow, maybe every couple of years. Although some years we might get a couple of lots. But some years we get none. When it does snow it generally only lasts a few hours to a day. So most of my snow driving is on nice fresh snow. It is super rare that we get compacted icy snow and never have weeks old frosted snow. I say this, because whenever it snows I always go out for a drive in it and to have some fun. On and off road and in my own personal experience Mud Terrains have always performed better in the snow than any All Terrain tyre I have owned experienced yet. Which goes against what many people may say. However I do not know what sort of snow you may face where you are. In the snow the Wormdrive was perfectly adequate and safe to get about on and drive from place to place. But IMO most of the MT’s I’ve driven in similar conditions worked as well or better. Off road again you could get about in the snow, but an MT would generally work better for the snow depth and the fact that under the snow the ground is often still wet and muddy. On heavily compacted snow and different snow types including more ice I have no doubts that AT’s as a rule should out perform MT’s and that a more heavily sipped tyre would be desired. There are AT’s more focused for snow and ice use, but they may then perform worse in some other areas. So it is probably a balancing trick on what you are after. Another tyre I have is the Kumho MT51 road venture (also sold as a Marshal tyre these days too). These are on my p38 RR. They look more MT or maybe even RT pattern. I’ve been quite impressed overall with them. Done long road trips, setup trials events and mild snow driving with them. Very good all round tyre and I’d rank them similar to the Toyo MT in capability. So I’d consider them more aggressive AT despite their more MT looking appearance. Lastly we recently fitted the Toyo AT3 to the Freelander in a nice tall and narrow 205 x 16 (well tall and narrow for a Freelander  ). Haven’t gone all that far with them yet. But they seem quite nice on road and worked well enough in some mildly slippery mud, although the TCS helps big time in the mud with the Freelander.
Overall I’d guess almost any quality tyre will do the job you are asking. So maybe it is a case of buying the one that you like the look of the most and that has the right price for you. Performance only really matters at the more extreme ends of the spectrum when you need it for a specific use and this is where you will see that some tyres can perform better in those conditions, but sometimes at the expense of performing slightly worse elsewhere. Out of your list the only I’d probably not for is the Cooper. They look fine and probably perform ok. But the last few sets of Coopers we’ve had have all suffer major sidewall cracking. And there seems to have been quite a lot of forum posts (other forums aside from here) and YouTube vids of Cooper tyres failing at speed. Which all looks a bit scary. I don’t want to tarnish an entire brand, but it has put me off them until I see the trend changing. Here are the Cooper tyres we took off the Freelander recently (replaced with the Toyo AT3):  Click image to enlarge They weren’t that old either. Or put it this way, most of the tyres we’ve had get used until they are a lot older. All 4 tyres had failed in the same way. Between myself, my brother and my Uncle we have run loads and loads of tyres over the years and have a shed full of Land Rover tyres. Not really has any others fail like the Coopers have. Not even the many remould tyres we’ve had either. |
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1st Jul 2024 6:31am |
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| AndyNZ Member Since: 07 Oct 2022 Location: Blenheim Posts: 7
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A wealth of knowledge there! I had a look at the Wormdrive's but I think they'll clog up with that clay mud we get here. Definitely would be better on snow/hard packed snow for mountain roads. Mostly though we are forced to wear chains no matter the tyre so this is mattering less and less!
I've now contacted a bunch of local shops and got prices on the tyres I'm interested in. These might be of interest to others for comparison (all in NZD), in order of highest to lowest price: BFG KM3 235/85r16 = $868.00 General Tire Grabber X3 235/85r16 = $699.00 Maxxis Razr MT 235/85r16 = $600.00 Falken MT01 235/85r16 = $579.00 Yokohama Geolander G003 235/85r16 $518.00 Toyo Open Country MT = These are discontinued in New Zealand now  , not enough to supply a full set. I am actually a bit bummed as these tyres seem to perform outstandingly in mud, and are relatively happy to drive on highways from what I've seen. I have been deep diving into youtube and forums pretty hard for weeks now!!
For most things in life I've always regretted buying an alternative to the thing I really wanted and I have to say I am leaning toward the BFG KM3's even with their hefty price tag. They appear to just be the most reliable, proven and good all round tyre at the moment. Possibly the best for my needs. The Geolandar MT has a fairly similar tread pattern to the Toyo's, but they really do look a little more mud orientated and I have seen evidence that the siping isn't full depth - something that is on the BFGs. I will take your advice and avoid Cooper. The local sales shop have suggested the Maxxis Razr MTs but I just don't know if it's the right fit. I often see them mounted oversized on a full offr oad, pig hunting, jack daniels slinging rig - which is not quite my tempo. Skinnies FTW! 
I've just requested a quote for the BFG KM3 in 255/85r16 which seems to be very common on Defenders that can go everywhere. I do fear the 235/85r16 KM3s tread width (contact patch) is actually just a bit too thin compared to the same size in another tyre... Anyone have these mounted or could comment? Brooklyn Coachworks have this size on all their heritage Defenders which I think are just sublime. Click image to enlarge 2002 Defender TD5 110 Epsom Green @giuseppethedefender |
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4th Jul 2024 1:46am |
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| AndyNZ Member Since: 07 Oct 2022 Location: Blenheim Posts: 7
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For those that are curious I've just received a set of BFG KM3 235/85r16s and this is how they compare to my older (turns out 17 years old when I figured out how to read the tyre code!!
) original KM1s in 265/75r16.
Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Still waiting on a couple of genuine Sawtooth wheels to turn up and then will get them fitted. Thanks all for your help, I think these will suit my needs. 2002 Defender TD5 110 Epsom Green @giuseppethedefender |
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16th Jul 2024 8:19pm |
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