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jf_est

Member Since: 12 Nov 2023
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 25

Chasing Engine issues on my 2.4 Puma

Hi all,

Wondered if I could get some help/advice from the community on some issues I'm experiencing with my car's engine. (2007, 2.4, 119k kms).

I had the classic tapping/rattle noise I've heard other owners complaining about on their cars, and I think I've tried most of the fixes.

It's cost me an arm and a leg over the past few months, I've had:

- Injectors tested, re-sealed, re-coded.
- Glow plugs inspected, and replaced.
- Rocker arm assembly and camshaft replaced.

Many headaches and a few thousand Euros later, I've still got a engine that sounds like a bag of bolts in a washer.

There's a ton of air/oil being thrown out the oil filler on idle when I remove the cap I'm not sure if that's normal, or indicative of another issue that might be at play?

If anyone with more experience could advise I'd be hugely grateful!

10th Jun 2024 1:30pm

hornet

Member Since: 04 Jan 2010
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 361

It sounds as if the pressure in the crankshaft housing is too high, only a little air may come out of the filler neck and certainly no oil may be thrown out. The trivial case would be a clogged separator. I would start by checking it.
It is important to act here until the pressure becomes so high that the crankshaft seal starts to leaks.

10th Jun 2024 1:37pm

shaynecm

Member Since: 10 May 2024
Location: Norwich
Posts: 63

when the injectors were re-seated did they change the rubber o-ring? i allways recommend genuine parts for these little pieces some bluebox copper washers are strangly magnetic.

I would check oil catch can and exhaust manifold next.

also worth double checking all bolts to see if they have worked loose anywhere

then check the crankpully.

10th Jun 2024 1:49pm

jf_est

Member Since: 12 Nov 2023
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 25

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll add that to my list of things to look over tomorrow 👍

10th Jun 2024 2:08pm

MK

Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2414

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White

Regarding air/gases coming out of the oil filler neck. I have seen several cases in healthy 2.4 and 2.2 engines with all sorts of kms throwing quite a bit of clear looking gases and oil drops. Same in other similar light duty diesel engines. A bit different when the gases look like smoke. Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

10th Jun 2024 3:12pm

jf_est

Member Since: 12 Nov 2023
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 25

Ah ok. I wouldn't say it was smoky, and its definitely fine droplets of oil. It just seems like a lot of pressure being chucked out.

10th Jun 2024 8:47pm

hank

Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2298

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

I would start by redoing the injector seals (copper washers). This is a DIY job - spend some time on it getting it right.

I feel like a broken record saying this again but the injector seats and bores need to be almost surgically clean to stand the best chance of the copper washers actually sealing and preventing blow by.

Have a read here https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83937.html > 110 XS Double Cab

11th Jun 2024 6:24am

jf_est

Member Since: 12 Nov 2023
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 25

Thanks, Hank. I'll definitely re-do this job. Injectors was one of the first things I did, then it went to a pro for the rocker arm assembly, so its possible the seals need another look at.

Thanks for the link 🫡

11th Jun 2024 6:37am

jbcollier

Member Since: 29 Apr 2024
Location: Edmonton AB
Posts: 82

2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White

It's not just new seals, you also have to refurbish the injector seats in the head. If they have been noisy, then the injectors have been moving. This means the seats get worn out of true. You'll need to cut the seats square and true again.

11th Jun 2024 11:04pm

hank

Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2298

You're right but you have to be careful. If you take off too much material then you'll never get a seal.

Proper copper washers (not the cheap copper coated steel ones) are thick and malleable enough to deform to form a seal I've found. > 110 XS Double Cab

12th Jun 2024 6:09am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17372

hank wrote:
... If you take off too much material then you'll never get a seal. ...

Care to explain? The injector seals on its lower face only, so provided the face is smooth and you have not actually cut it through to the combustion chamber (in which case I agree with your statement) I don't see how this can be.

You would only ever be cutting a minimal amount, a few tens of thou if that, off the seat to reface it.

12th Jun 2024 7:17am

jf_est

Member Since: 12 Nov 2023
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 25

I think I'm starting to narrow things down, the noise is coming from the rocker arm assembly still.

The blow by, having looked at some of the before/after videos linked elsewhere in the forum, seems like its probably within a normal range. It's no where near as bad as some of the cases with poorly sealed injectors.

Again, thanks for all the tips/advice.

12th Jun 2024 9:41am

hank

Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2298

The injector length from seat to clamping face is a fixed dimension

So is the corresponding length from head seat face to injector clamp

The more material that is taken off the head seat face the greater the dimension from head seat face to injector clamp becomes

Unless you have owned from new it is difficult to know whether the seats have been cut previously. At some point the dimension goes out of tolerance.

I would sooner adjust the copper washer thickness than take meat off my head > 110 XS Double Cab

12th Jun 2024 12:09pm

jbcollier

Member Since: 29 Apr 2024
Location: Edmonton AB
Posts: 82

Start it up and put your fingers on the injector where it goes through the cover. You will feel if they are moving. If not, your noise is elsewhere.

When removing the injectors, which you'll have to do to look at the rockers, examine the section of the injector above the seal. Clean, bare metal? Your seals are fine -- though you fit new ones every time.

If you don't mind a real #%$ mess, remove the cover and then refit the injectors without the cover -- ok to reuse seals this time. Start it up and use a long screwdriver to the ear (or a stethoscope) to try and isolate the noise. This will NOT be a fun experience. Could be a bad lifter or a cracked rocker assembly.

12th Jun 2024 12:14pm

jbcollier

Member Since: 29 Apr 2024
Location: Edmonton AB
Posts: 82

Hank

I bought mine at 100K. Injectors came loose while driving so I pulled the them and cleaned the seats first (special wire brushes). I then examined the seats. Two were badly deformed and required cutting. The other two were fine. I agree that you shouldn't just cut the seats for no reason. It is pretty obvious if they will require cutting or not.

12th Jun 2024 12:43pm

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