 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Rattle under load (sorted, injector problem) |
 
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| Waka56 Member Since: 08 Nov 2023 Location: Hamburg Posts: 167  
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I'll just get the clip off and check how free it is. Not sure what the spring is supposed to bring..
Did not see your last message. I'll ask the girlfriend for help then. Making my Defender great again. (Or trying to at least xD) |
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19th Jan 2024 12:56pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20612 
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That spring should not be there.
Remove it, see how it goes. If it still causes issues replace the EA with a new one with identical part code, that spring is not factory fit and will for sure interfere with the normal usage of the actuator. As BW mentioned, it’s unlikely you’ll see movement in the EA unless under load. But you can unclip the linkage, and manually operate the turbo side. Don’t force the EA side, and beware of losing the circlip. Ideal to do when you lube the two linkages. But that spring, should not be there. Chillin In The Backwoods🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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19th Jan 2024 4:56pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20612
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It will I seem to remember, but, best only done when up to temperature after a run. Ideally need a helper to take a look or vice versa for it though. When my EA on the Turbo threw the code for “Turbo overboost stuck open”, or whatever code it was it was the pivots were dried up and sticky with no lube at all. It didn’t set off the MIL amber dash light, but it did trigger limp mode and means you’ll have very little power at all and a very bad thing if you were on the motorway or heavy towing. I was wondering if my EA was getting weak due to its age, I was thinking and wondering if I’d still have trouble with it ongoing and have to replace it. But no, periodic lube with 3 in 1 light oil dripper and I’ve not had any issue at all since. I think ceramic greases are a bit heavy, and more likely to get bound up and sticky and it’s very critical for performance if it is sticky you’ll get quite a turbo lag. I’m not sure what the consistency is of the LR PN for the lube they use, but I do know it’s very expensive. Either way, you just know the answer would be buy and fit a new turbo.  Chillin In The Backwoods🇬🇧🇺🇸
⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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19th Jan 2024 5:05pm |
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| Waka56 Member Since: 08 Nov 2023 Location: Hamburg Posts: 167
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Is that what you lubricate?
 Click image to enlarge Making my Defender great again. (Or trying to at least xD) |
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19th Jan 2024 5:50pm |
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| Waka56 Member Since: 08 Nov 2023 Location: Hamburg Posts: 167
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I thought so to, was just wondering how it was supposed to help. Lot of problems to fix, but hell I already love that car! Making my Defender great again. (Or trying to at least xD) |
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19th Jan 2024 5:59pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3479  
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Assuming you took the picture with the engine either at idle or off, it seems to me that the actuator position is not correct. If you also compare it with the picture you posted later for a new one, the actuator crank should be at around 1 or 2 o’clock. Not close to my Defender to verify. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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19th Jan 2024 6:14pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20612
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The two pivot points to lube in green here:
Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge No need to disconnect anything. 
This is what I use: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374536305317?ep...R5LC4q6kYw There are alternatives of course. If you carefully wanted to open and close the turbo vanes manually with the engine off, take off the lower circlip (lower green circle) in the top photo, then you can operate it manually. I would not force or move manually the upper arm which is the EA unit, only the turbo side. When I checked mine it was free to move the turbo vanes, it was simply the pivots gluey and sticky, once lubed all good.  Chillin In The Backwoods🇬🇧🇺🇸
⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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19th Jan 2024 6:21pm |
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| Waka56 Member Since: 08 Nov 2023 Location: Hamburg Posts: 167
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I did indeed! Thanks for the info, if you can confirm later (Or someone else) that would be cool. What does the actuator actually do? Before the error comes out the turbo seems to act normally.. But Since I always drove it like that, I can't tell for sure. I got to 19psi today if I can thrust the OBDII.
Is it the part that always get sticky, I seemed to read somewhere that it was sometimes the actuator itself. Making my Defender great again. (Or trying to at least xD) |
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19th Jan 2024 7:17pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20612
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It can be the turbo vanes sticking in the turbo, it can be the turbo actuator, but it’s the linkage and the pivot points in the photos in the green circles in the above photos that get gummed up, which makes the EA work harder, slower, and can cause the turbo actuation to make the turbo get stuck open or closed.
I’d just take that spring away, and lube and see how it goes, I think you’ll find it will be fine after that. If not, replace the EA, but wait and see first. Regards the actual vanes sticking if that happens there isn’t too much that you can do other than running something like millers diesel additive in fuel over time helps. And manually checking the actuation of the vanes is smooth and free. There are turbo cleaners, but I wouldn’t recommend that to be honest. Replacing the turbo it’s self is really the final solution if all else fails, I highly doubt there is any likelihood of that being needed. That spring seems to have been placed there to keep the turbo actuator closed, but there’s no doubt that’s making the EA work hard, it shouldn’t be there. It might suggest it’s got stuck open before causing over boost, like mine did. But that spring won’t do the EA any good, if lubing it and removing that spring doesn’t sort it out which I think it will. Then replace the electronic actuator, I don’t think it’s that difficult to change either. The spring being there, tells me it’s the pivots that have got stuck before or the EA is weak and got stuck, it’s not that common for the EA to fail. Probably just glued up by lack of lube. Sometimes it pays with diesels when up to temp and safe to do so, drive it hard to open everything up and free everything. Good luck. Chillin In The Backwoods🇬🇧🇺🇸
⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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19th Jan 2024 8:30pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3479
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Would had been glad to verify the actuator position with engine off if I was not away for the next 2 weeks.
Perhaps the cause of the P0234 code? 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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19th Jan 2024 8:54pm |
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| Waka56 Member Since: 08 Nov 2023 Location: Hamburg Posts: 167
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The code only comes after a good warm up, not straight away after the engine is switched on. I have easily time to drive 10 mins in the city, then reach the motorway and it is still fine for a couple of kilometers then power gone. I'll try to find out in which position that actuator should be on idle, but first of all, as Steve recommends, I'll remove that spring.
What does actuator open/close does? I never had the chance to get Turbo problems before, so I am quite clueless. Have a good evening guys Edit. I am re reading your post Dinnu, and logically the idle position should be what we see on the picture of the new actuator, makes sense. Making my Defender great again. (Or trying to at least xD) |
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19th Jan 2024 9:47pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20612
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Closed is basically idle, with little boost, open is full boost.
Full boost is momentary I.e on full acceleration, and not meant to be permanent or you’d have the engine revving its self to pieces. If it gets stuck the actuator on open I.e full boost the ECM / ECU will shut down power into limp mode to prevent engine damage. Which basically means it’ll get you home but very little power. But the actuation can get stuck closed too, then you’ll just get basically limp mode anyway with no boost. From off the top of my head the boost psi you mentioned sounds normal. I think with the spring taken off, manually operate the linkage to turbo to check linkage and vanes are free and a little lube on the pivots and I think you’ll find things will be all good. If not then maybe a new actuator, but I’d wait and see. You might want to search on here, to find out how to clean the MAF and MAP sensors if you don’t know already. The latter may be gunked up quite a lot, and can affect performance quote a lot regards turbo performance. All the info should be on here. If you don’t have a torque screwdriver for the MAP sensor bolt, just lightly nip it up, don’t over tighten it in the manifold. Brake cleaner aerosol will clean the sensors, with its jet of spray from it. Keep them meticulously clean and then let air dry for 20 mins after and don’t touch or disturb the elements only use the aerosol spray to jet it off. The MAP sensor typically gets more dirty than the MAF. The MAF is located on the air box lid, note airflow direction arrow must be expected on it, remove, clean and refit in the same orientation. The red tab needs pushing back first to release it first before the connector will remove. The MAP on the inlet manifold, which is silver metal tubing, it’s got a Bosch logo on it, and a single bolt. If you see a picture of it you’ll soon recognise it. This is assuming that someone doesn’t know the locations of them, I tend to clean them along with servicing they don’t need doing as often as say greasing props. They should be cleaned with servicing anyway in my opinion, but like brake fluid etc it doesn’t get done. Chillin In The Backwoods🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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19th Jan 2024 10:16pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17600 
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The actuator, under ECM control, alters the angle of the static vanes in the turbine part of the turbo, and by so doing adjusts the speed of the rotor to alter the effective boost. By this means the boost pressure can be adjusted largely independent of engine speed and exhaust gas flow, with the particular result that high boost pressures can be obtained at low engine speeds. Similarly when power is not required, the boost pressure and hence fuel demand can be reduced. In the 13 years I have owned my Defender I have had two problems relating to the turbo performance. The first was caused by the linkage in the turbo jamming in the "no boost" position, with the result that the actuator could not shift it. I can't remember the fault codes, but the effect was immediate and very significant, no boost, negligible power (made more alarming by the fact that I was just about to start the climb up Haldon Hill with a 3-ton trailer at the moment of failure). Disconnecting the link from the actuator and turbo and waggling the operating lever on the turbo sorted this out, and it hasn't recurred. Note that the vane operating lever should move so freely it feels as though it is broken and doing nothing. I think that fitting a catch can to the engine breather circuit and blanking the EGR probably both prolong the life of the turbo. The second issue I had was caused by one of the sense wires in the harness from the actuator to the ECM chafing through on the engine, which resulted in the actuator immediately moving to the full boost position and staying there whenever the ignition was on. This has two interesting effects, firstly the engine power is impressive since full boost is present all the time, and secondly the induction noise (especially as I have a large-bore RAI) is extraordinary, like rolling thunder (reminded me of a Vulcan at full climb with afterburn)! |
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19th Jan 2024 10:16pm |
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| Waka56 Member Since: 08 Nov 2023 Location: Hamburg Posts: 167
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Thanks, I usually cleaned this on my old car to, but because I bought it lately I put a new MAF and MAP so I can rule them out as a possible problem. I will play a bit with the actuator, but with a price of 60€, a new one will probably come soon ish to, I am getting worried of its idle position haha Making my Defender great again. (Or trying to at least xD) Last edited by Waka56 on 19th Jan 2024 10:34pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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19th Jan 2024 10:33pm |
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