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DavidLew

Member Since: 11 May 2023
Location: Hunter Valley
Posts: 3

Defender AWD -How does it work?

Hi all
looking at buying 2023 Defender 110 6 cyl.

I am seeking a technical paper or review on the new defender AWD system.

From what I can gather its a clutch based torque vectoring system but I want to find out how it operates such as torque split characteristics, if it prioritizes 2wd RWD and when, if it can be modified in settings or by configurable drive mode etc, how it works in conjunction with "active rear dif with torque vectoring by braking" etc

Importantly, I have heard conflicting advice as to whether only the diesel received "intelligent AWD" that biased preference for 2WD (RWD) (reducing emissions)

As I am looking at Towing, I am keen on diesel D300 but would prefer a more permanent full time AWD system, if say this is a feature of the petrol version,even if it only selects say 20% torque"as needed" to front wheels (as opposed to 0%).

Thanks
David

11th May 2023 9:04am

Defendit..

Member Since: 09 Aug 2020
Location: 's-Hertogenbosch
Posts: 427

To my knowledge the P300 / P400 / P525 have full time 4 wheel drive , so 50/50 always.
I can confirm this with my P300. ( Quattro behavior, there is a reason Bowler uses this version for Rallye Championship)
The centerdiff locks them if requested.

Just buy a Petrol...

No Mud flaps for my 90.!
-----------------------------------------
P300 S MY21 on air, adv.+ offroad pack, DRL+fog, Dinamica Suedecloth + Ebony headliner/Cross Beam- Many Mods..

11th May 2023 10:32am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17427

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Does the new Def not use some variant of a Haldex unit? I didn't think it had a centre diff as such.

Since as a vehicle it doesn't really interest me one iota I could well be wrong.

11th May 2023 2:52pm

Retroanaconda

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2655

Click image to enlarge

11th May 2023 3:04pm

WizzardPrang

Member Since: 05 Nov 2020
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 154

Not Haldex.

Twin speed transfer case attached behind the auto box, has full time permanent all wheel drive unit with a centre diff & 50/50 torque distribution to the front and rear driveshafts, selectable high and low range. The transfer case is identical for all engine derivatives. Current vehicle: 2020 Defender 110S
Gone: Defender 90 HT 200Tdi, Discovery Sport, Freelander 2

Insta: wizzardprang

11th May 2023 3:08pm

Tim in Scotland

Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

Thanks for posting that diagram Retroanaconda - it’s a difficult thing to explain otherwise. I was also told that the system can re-engage the front drive in 1/300th second or as soon as any wheel slip is detected. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!

11th May 2023 3:12pm

lightning

Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2823

Why do you want to know how the AWD works.

lt's a very good system and l've never got stuck despite only having the basic coil spring specification with no locking diffs or configurable terrain response etc

11th May 2023 5:59pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17427

Thanks for the diagram, so it is a Haldex-type set-up.

Another reason not to buy one, as far as I am concerned.

11th May 2023 6:55pm

DSC-off

Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1426

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

lightning wrote:
Why do you want to know how the AWD works.

lt's a very good system and l've never got stuck despite only having the basic coil spring specification with no locking diffs or configurable terrain response etc

Some people think it's important to understand what they're buying.

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic87123.html

lightning wrote:

Today l reversed on to a muddy field to turn around, only the rear wheels were on the field, the front wheels were on solid ground.

When l came to drive away the Defender didn't want to move, the rear wheels spun and it barely moved forward.
l thought that drive would be shifted to the front wheels.

11th May 2023 8:44pm

DavidLew

Member Since: 11 May 2023
Location: Hunter Valley
Posts: 3

DSC-off wrote:
Some people think it's important to understand what they're buying.

Agreed. There are lots of reasons but in my case I am specifically looking at the impact on towing and comparing any differences between diesel and petrol in terms of how AWD works.

Paraphrasing Kant , Theory without experience is intellectual play but Experience without theory is blind

11th May 2023 10:25pm

DavidLew

Member Since: 11 May 2023
Location: Hunter Valley
Posts: 3

Retroanaconda wrote:

Click image to enlarge

Thanks.I have come across this diagram before but some confusing aspects for me.

What is a D6H engine - Diesel 6cyl hybrid?? If its diesel of any sort then the technology only applies to diesel, at least in 2021? Defender?

There are some odd comments likefully closed clutch with 50:50 torque split "as with a locked differential". The conventional locked differential can split torque anywhere from 0 to 100%. Open differentials always split 50:50

The diagram suggests a maximum of 50% torque to front wheels (never 100%) and front whheels can also additionally be disconnected from any torque. Suggests a bias to RWD

Some have suggested a Haldex system and elsewhere a BorgWarner system which was used by JLR somewhere in past

others have sggested " P300 / P400 / P525 have full time 4 wheel drive , so 50/50 always. " and others "Twin speed transfer case attached behind the auto box, has full time permanent all wheel drive unit with a centre diff & 50/50 torque distribution to the front and rear driveshafts, selectable high and low range. The transfer case is identical for all engine derivatives."

Pity JLR doesn't release more info (that I can find)

11th May 2023 10:41pm

XplusYplusZ

Member Since: 16 Aug 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 489

blackwolf wrote:
"Since as a vehicle it doesn't really interest me one iota I could well be wrong"

"Another reason not to buy one, as far as I am concerned."

Not a fan then!?

I get it. But the world is getting cleaner and more efficient. These types of electronics are required now or the vehicle won't get built, and worse is yet to come - Pretty soon they're going to be expanding these ULEZ concepts further and further. You're going to need to get with the program eventually..

12th May 2023 3:41pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17427

Not necessarily, old age may overtake the programme if I'm lucky!

12th May 2023 4:23pm

lightning

Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2823

DSC-off wrote:
lightning wrote:
Why do you want to know how the AWD works.

lt's a very good system and l've never got stuck despite only having the basic coil spring specification with no locking diffs or configurable terrain response etc

Some people think it's important to understand what they're buying.

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic87123.html

lightning wrote:

Today l reversed on to a muddy field to turn around, only the rear wheels were on the field, the front wheels were on solid ground.

When l came to drive away the Defender didn't want to move, the rear wheels spun and it barely moved forward.
l thought that drive would be shifted to the front wheels.

Yes you are right, point taken!

13th May 2023 8:55am

lightning

Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2823

blackwolf wrote:
Thanks for the diagram, so it is a Haldex-type set-up.

Another reason not to buy one, as far as I am concerned.

What are you doing on the L663 part of the forum if you don't like the vehicle!!
l had a Porsche 928
I don't like Porsche SUV's
Which is why l never lurked on that part of the Porsche forum.

13th May 2023 9:00am

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