 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Penman trailer brake problem |
 
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| rallysteve Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Cumbria Posts: 2222   
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That part is a modification which was made to many of the trailers. Its a pressure relief valve which prevents brake pressure exceeding a certain limit. It is intended to prevent the trailer wheels locking under heavy braking.
Previously would have had an accumulator fitted instead. Is the handbrake correctly adjusted (not too tight)? Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread |
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25th Feb 2023 8:33pm |
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| John Bow Member Since: 25 Feb 2023 Location: Groningen Posts: 4 
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Hi Steve,
Thanks a lot. Could this pressure relief valve be defect? I don’t think it is the hand brake because the trailer can be pushed by hand most of the time. The problem occurs when towing it behind my Defender. John Last edited by John Bow on 1st Mar 2023 9:29pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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25th Feb 2023 8:42pm |
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| diesel_jim Member Since: 13 Oct 2008 Location: hiding Posts: 6088 
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John, PM me your email address, I've got all the workshop manuals here for the penman, I'll send over.
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27th Feb 2023 7:06am |
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| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 913 
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The penman also has a Pivot based pressure relase system on the RH wheel.
According to the AESP this is the bleeding method 9.7.4 Top up the reservoir with brake fluid (refer to Cat 601). 9.7.5 Start at the furthest bleed nipple from the master cylinder (Left-Hand (LH) s1de). 9.7.6 Remove the dust cap and attach a bleed pipe. The other end of the pipe should be immersed in a container with a quantity of brake fluid_ 9.7.7 Open the bleed nipple. 9.7.8 Push the brake operating lever, with smooth even strokes. 9.7.9 Repeat this operation until the air has stopped bubbling from the pipe immersed in the container. NOTE (1) Observe the level in the reservoir and ensure this level does not drop below the danger level identified on the reservoir body at any time during the bleeding process_ (2) Ensure that the operator topping up the reservoir during the bleeding process does so slowly to minimise the risk of air bubbles entering the brake system. 9.7.1 0 Once this state is achieved, the brake operating lever should be held at the end of its stroke (pressure applied). Tighten the bleed nipple. 9.7.11 Release the brake operating lever smoothly. 9.7.12 Check the reservoir, top up if necessary. NOTE If no fluid can be passed through the bleed nipple when fully open, the rotating caliper carrier will require adjusting. This is located on the RH wheel assembly and as will be seen the mechanism is kept in a biased position by the employment of a compression spring. By screwing in the adjustment bolt this will increase the compression on the spring. It is recommended that a distance of 6 mm between the back face of the locking nut and the front face of the boll be employed, which allows the valve within the valve block to be fully open_ Care must however be taken to ensure that the spring is not compressed to its coil bound position and therefore it is recommended that a 5 mm allowance of further travel be left within the spring. 9 7.13 Carry out the bleed cycle on the RH wheel as detailed in Para 9.7.6 to 9.7.11. 9.7.14 Check the reservoir, top up if necessary Mod lnstr No. Amdt 1 o N v 1 -t -t ARMY EQUIPMENT 2330-E-202-811 9UPPORT PUBLICATION 9.7.15 With the stone guard removed the auto-reverse valve bleed nipple is on the upperface of the auto-reverse valve 9.7. 16 Repeat the bleed cycle on the auto-reverse valve as detailed in Para 9.7.6 to 9.7.11 9. 7.17 Check the reservoir, top up if necessary NOTE To check that the brake system is operating correctly the brake operating lever must be pushed back f1rmly with the trailer wheels clear of the ground, they should be rotated in the forward direction and should be met with resistance retarding and stopping the wheels. To check the autoreverse feature -rotate the RH wheel backwards, some initial resistance should be fell at which stage the valve will shut off the pressure coming from the brake operating lever and allow the wheel to rotate freely. The LH wheel should also be checked by a second person {it is worthy of note that if the auto-reverse feature is not initiated by rotating the RH wheel and kept in the reverse position the LH wheel will be retarded and held in a locked position). 9.7.18 Force the brake operating lever first to its stopped position {brakes hard on), then over to the master cylinder fully stroked position. 9.7.19 A resistance caused by the internal spring load will be felt against the effort applied, which should be held for 10 seconds. 9.7 .20 If any air is seen rising from the bottom of the reservoir during and after Para 9.7.19 then repeat the bleed cycle as detailed in Para 9.7.5 to 9.7.19. 9.7.21 Refit the moisture barrier. 9.7.22 Refit the reservoir cap and outer cover. 9.7.23 Refit the master cylinder top cover. As seen here > https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/g..._Cargo.pdf Page 445. Also can be found on Fb, Ytube, Insta & Twitter @4WDSouthwest |
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27th Feb 2023 5:52pm |
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| rallysteve Member Since: 10 Feb 2014 Location: Cumbria Posts: 2222
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If you are fairly sure that it is not the handbrake mechanism. It is worth checking the adjustment at the drawbar/master cylinder adjustment bolt is correctly adjusted. If that is too far out the brakes will drag and the more they heat up, the worse it will get.
Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread |
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27th Feb 2023 7:46pm |
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| John Bow Member Since: 25 Feb 2023 Location: Groningen Posts: 4
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Thank you all very much.
The bleeding procedure was performed like described Devon-Rover but we’ll have a look at the rotating caliper. Very helpfull! My assumption of the pressure relief valve to be defect is not right you think? Steve, yes there is some space between the draw bar and master cilinder👍 Jim, I will, much appreciated! Do you all think that the pressure relief valve is not causing the problem? |
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27th Feb 2023 9:08pm |
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| LandymanStefan Member Since: 30 Aug 2017 Location: Surrey Posts: 881  
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Have you had any luck with this yet?
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12th Mar 2023 11:08pm |
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| John Bow Member Since: 25 Feb 2023 Location: Groningen Posts: 4
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Next week we will have a look at it again. I'll keep you posted
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13th Mar 2023 9:56am |
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| LandymanStefan Member Since: 30 Aug 2017 Location: Surrey Posts: 881
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Well just finishing up an epic road trip in the alps with my penman and this has happened to me now. Coming down one of the last mountains of the holiday and the brakes locked on and cooked. Managed to drag it to a petrol station on the flat to jack it and take the wheels off. Ended up having to crack the brake lines to release the pressure and now we’re driving home unbraked which isn’t ideal but should get us back.
Even melted my nut caps. Will have to bleed and see what’s what when I get back.  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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9th Sep 2023 2:48pm |
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| LandymanStefan Member Since: 30 Aug 2017 Location: Surrey Posts: 881
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After a quick damage assesment today its not looking great. Looks like the whole system really cooked up. The caliper dust seals are burnt and disintegrating, same with the rubber boots on the hand brake cables. So looks like ill have to strip and re build the calipers. I need to check the seal on the back of where the wheel bearing is as i can only assume thats cooked too so thats a full hub strip down to get to it. Also the return line from the prv box has melted the moisture barrier/diaphram in the resevoir when it was returning the boiling fluid back in there.
I have a few questions for the folk out there that hve done a fair bit of work on the penmans. Does anyone know the part number of the rubber diaphram for the resevoir? I know the master cylinder is a girling 75 but that alone doesnt come with the resevoir cup and barrier. Another thing is what grease is used when re packing the wheel bearings? Are the brake calipers just standard xantia fronts so i can buy a re seal kit for them? |
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16th Sep 2023 9:59pm |
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| Mother superior Member Since: 05 Aug 2013 Location: Surrey Posts: 504
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Watching this one with interest, I’m sure my Penman brakes need a total overhaul. But I’m struggling to find rebuild kits for master cylinder/callipers.
Wes Oh woe, oh woe My crusty old landrover, It will not go. |
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24th Sep 2023 8:27pm |
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| LandymanStefan Member Since: 30 Aug 2017 Location: Surrey Posts: 881
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Im currently midway through the rebuild. I’ve removed one caliper and rebuild it and removed the hub on that same side to check the rear bearing seal condition given the brake caliper seals were cooked.
The brake caliper rebuild was very straight forward, I bought a re seal kit for a xantia front caliper. One of the sliding pin gaskets was the wrong size but the company rectified this for me. I did order a package which showed it including the large cover that goes on the back of the caliper and protects the hand brake mechanism however this wasn’t included when I received it and they didn’t have this cover so they are going to refund this set and I purchased from another seller. The piston itself unscrews and screws back in which makes the job quite easy and minimal tools required. The hub seal was in good condition which I was able to see after removing the hub. I re packed the wheel bearings with grease and re assembled the bearings as per some defender manuals. I tightened to 60nm to seat the bearings then backed off, i then re tightened to 10nm and it felt great, no play and freely spinning. It does feel more loose/free than how it was originally set but I believe it feels fine and I’ll keep monitoring it. I’m hoping to get the other caliper re built tomorrow then I’ll try bleeding it on the weekend. The master cylinder is another off the shelf part, it’s girling 75 so I imagine you’ll be able to get a seal kit for it. I am occasionally in contact with a guy that works on bases as a mechanic and he said as long as the auto reverse valve isn’t faulty you should be ok. He said when they have trailers with the auto reverse valve faulty they have to write off the trailer as they can’t get any parts and haven’t been able to since penman went bust and got bought out. Even parts such as caliper seals etc that we can buy on civvy street, they can’t get hold of as they’re only approved to get the stuff from penman which don’t exist in their old form. A few pictures from the work so far Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Re sealed caliper Click image to enlarge Hub seal check and re build Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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25th Sep 2023 8:29pm |
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| Mother superior Member Since: 05 Aug 2013 Location: Surrey Posts: 504
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Many thanks for that Landy Man Stefan, I’ll start sorting some bits
Wes Oh woe, oh woe My crusty old landrover, It will not go. |
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27th Sep 2023 8:26pm |
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| LandymanStefan Member Since: 30 Aug 2017 Location: Surrey Posts: 881
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Well I completed the caliper rebuild on the other side too. Re build the wheel bearing on that side as well, it also needed a rear hub seal. To be honest I’m quite glad it forced me to rebuild the wheel bearing as they were set very tight how I received it. Had my old man to help me bleed the system as per the notes someone left above and everything now works fine!
Very happy that both the pressure relief valve and auto reverse still work as I was worried these are extremely hard to find. I think I may have to back the bolt off that engages the master cylinder as I think it’s engaging a little early for my liking. Had it out on the weekend and all was well (with the trailer that is suspect cracked td5 head now though) 
Click image to enlarge |
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12th Oct 2023 5:05pm |
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