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NineCherries

Member Since: 10 Aug 2019
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 47

Panhard polyurethane bushes seem too big??

Hi, I'm hoping someone with more experience of early vs late axles might be able to help me, I was going to post in the TD5 section but someone who has fitted poly bushes before might point out what I have done wrong.

Q. are panhard poly bushes a near impossibly tight fit into the chassis and axle mounts?

I've got an early TD5 110 csw (2000) that I replaced the knackered standard bushes on the panhard rod less than a year ago with britpart ANR3410 G bushes (britpart was all i could get locally the same day). over the past week my steering was feeling floaty again, very vague, so I started looking about and found one of the bushes (axle end) was knackered again.

So I dug out 2nd hand adjustable panhard rod i had in the garage (it was an impulse buy a while back), i'm 99% sure its a britpart DA1130, fitted new poly bushes to it that i had, but it was such a tight to fit into the 110's box shaped chassis and axle cups. its not the metal of the rod or the metal bolt sleeve that is tight, it's the sides of the poly bush itself. its so tight the sides of the poly bush gets distorted when fitted, I had to use a bottle jack on chassis side and a g clamp at the axle side to "persuade" them to go in. doesn't seem right to me.

I know they design of the mounts changes on later models to allow for the bigger bolts and higher torque but i thought the internal dimensions of the mounts were the same, no? just wondering if i've got the wrong ones or not?

on a plus though, the car feels so much better so i'm please I've found the root cause.

Cheers, Tony.

10th Mar 2022 12:48pm

jimbo55

Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Midlands
Posts: 397

There was a change of panhard rods in 2002, which changed to a larger bush/bolt set up, although I don’t know the exact details unfortunately

10th Mar 2022 1:46pm

Retroanaconda

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2625

The bushes are the same width where they mount in the axle and chassis bracket, only the bolt size changed from M14 to M16. The outer diameter of the later bush is also larger where it sits in the rod ends. As such it’s probably just poor quality polybushes.

Most polybushes are notoriously rubbish, replacing with a set of genuine Metalastik bushes will be a better option.

Difference in bushes here for reference:

Click image to enlarge

10th Mar 2022 1:52pm

jimbo55

Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Midlands
Posts: 397

Should also add that the genuine bush manufacturer changed a few years ago after the end of production so it’s no longer worth getting the genuine ones as the quality is no better. Most suppliers would recommend a superpro poly bush as they are about the best you can get now

10th Mar 2022 2:19pm

jaygti

Member Since: 04 Nov 2012
Location: essex
Posts: 376

Yes superpro bushes are the way to go these days. 👍🏻 2002 td5 90 county hardtop

10th Mar 2022 4:14pm

Retroanaconda

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2625

Not heard about a change of manufacturer - I bought a set of genuine panhard rod bushes last year and they were still Metalastik branded. They were date marked 2021 as well so not old stock.

While SuperPro have a better reputation than the cheap and nasty ones, they still have the inherent flaws of polyurethane bushes in that they don’t provide torsional resistance and they allow dirt to sit between the bush and arms and wear them. Whether these issues are a problem for you will very much depend on what you use the vehicle for.

10th Mar 2022 4:44pm

I Like Old Skool

Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Manchester
Posts: 792

1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi ST Coniston Green

Retro anaconda has nailed the issue with polybushes.

I ran polypushes (the genuine Polybush products) in the past and got fed up with them suddenly failing catastrophically under extreme use so decided to go back to OEM bushes because at least they fail gradually.
When trying to fit the metal sleeved OEM bushes I found the interference fit had gone due to abrasive wear of the polybushes when used in muddy conditions.

10th Mar 2022 11:55pm

Linds Hanson

Member Since: 16 Jan 2021
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 473

Dont fit poly type bushes to Panhard rods the best option is to enlarge the mounting holes and fit the later 2002 on Panhard rod with genuine bushes not Superpro or any other poly bush

11th Mar 2022 11:35am

NineCherries

Member Since: 10 Aug 2019
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 47

thanks guys,

retroanaconda - thanks for the image, it confirmed what I thought.

Mine is the earlier one with M14 bolts and the bent rod to miss the diff pumpkin. i might just have to keep a supply of bushes in the garage and change them as needed. if the "genuine" dealer ones are no better than aftermarket/oem spec then i'm as well having some spare.

mine is a daily driver with occasional off road days when i can make it along to them so the worry of polybush grinding away isnt too mush of a worry.

at least I know is just a crappy design of polybush ive fitted, but like i said it has improved the steering feel so ill fit a new bush to the original rod at my leisure and get it back on.

thanks again folks

11th Mar 2022 11:46am

NineCherries

Member Since: 10 Aug 2019
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 47

Linds Hanson wrote:
Dont fit poly type bushes to Panhard rods the best option is to enlarge the mounting holes and fit the later 2002 on Panhard rod with genuine bushes not Superpro or any other poly bush

was the mount not beefed up too on the chassis and axle and flipped round too? as I thought the newer style was torqued to over 200 Nm and my old style to 80 odd?

Is this what you've done?
Cheers
T

11th Mar 2022 11:52am

Linds Hanson

Member Since: 16 Jan 2021
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 473

The axle bracket is stronger but the late Pan rod can be fitted to earlier axle by opening out the mounting holes to the later bolt size

11th Mar 2022 12:13pm

jaygti

Member Since: 04 Nov 2012
Location: essex
Posts: 376

In an ideal world we’d all fit genuine bushes and live happily ever after.
Unfortunately we don’t live in that world anymore.

Firstly genuine bushes are ridiculously expensive.
Secondly they are just not reliable anymore. You may get the good original ones that have been on the shelf for a few years, you may not.
Some are even paying genuine prices and receiving bushes in a Britpart box. A £6.00 bush for £110 -ouch.

Companies like Gywn Lewis have swapped to Superpro for precisely this reason.
If you have a source of good genuine bushes , then we’ll done.
If you want to take part in the Lottery of hoping to get good ones -fair enough.
Personally I have better things to do, so I’ll stick with Superpro from now on , it’s the best of the polys. 2002 td5 90 county hardtop

12th Mar 2022 7:29am

Retroanaconda

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2625

If people are paying for a genuine part and it arrives in a Britpart box then they need to change their supplier, regardless of any change in quality of the parts a genuine LR part is just that and is sold/packaged as such. The only exception is where you buy small parts individually which are sold by LR in packs, the retailer will break open these packs to do so and you just have to trust them that you are getting the right bits. For this reason I generally try and buy in LR pack quantities where possible.

I’d still rather fit a lower quality rubber/Metalastik bush than the best polybush for the reasons outlined above, even if that means changing them more often. The panhard rod is the bush that wears fastest in normal use and so I carry a spare rod made up ready to go, which I can swap over in 10 minutes.

12th Mar 2022 11:47am

jimbo55

Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Midlands
Posts: 397

The difficulty comes when britpart run land rover stores and then you get whatever they have to hand, the vast majority of “genuine” parts are now identical to britpart rubbish.

Given that the vast majority of suppliers have gone away from genuine lr bushes over the last few years says it all really, the days of metalastic bushes being better then poly bushes are gone in the past. I would imagine than over the next few years you’ll only be able to get polybushes anyway

12th Mar 2022 12:04pm

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