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zakoos



Member Since: 01 Sep 2021
Location: Paris
Posts: 4
France 2001 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Baltic Blue
TD5 engine - Puma chassis swap
Hello,

I have a 2001 defender (RHD) 110 TD5 Double cab in France. This winter, the rear crossmember was becoming crusty, I inspected the chassis and decided to swap it as the condition was too bad (it was the original one) Very Happy


Click image to enlarge


I bought a chassis privately in Belgium which was supposed to be for a TD5.
It ended up being a Puma chassis (which I found out too late), so we tried to reweld the mounts in the correct position using the measurements from the old chassis.



Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge

The engine and gearbox are now in position, but the exhaust is touching the chassis in various places. Some hoses will not go in position, and the turbo is definitely too close to the suspension turret (see pictures).


Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge


I reckon the engine mounts are in the wrong position.
I have tried to collect as much information as possible on the differences between td5 chassis and puma ones. Seems like there aren't too many. So if I end up successfully putting the block in the right position, will I encounter more issues?

Before you ask me, I would clearly prefer changing to a proper TD5 chassis but I've gone too far and budget doesn't allow me to do this Big Cry

Thanks in advance for your help!
Zak
Post #919517 1st Sep 2021 1:50pm
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Gasket



Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629
Hi Zak.

you might consider calling Richards Chassis or XD chassis. XD in particular build up their chassis using OEM rails and tailor them to suit - there are also other companies that take Puma-era chassis and convert them for use in earlier models.

Instead of asking their advice (which might not be forthcoming), you could ask to buy a Puma-TD5 conversion kit complete with measurements. You might end up paying for brackets you already have, but at least they'd be engaged in supplying the correct measurements.

Just a thought.
Post #919544 1st Sep 2021 4:18pm
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Defendermatt



Member Since: 15 Sep 2016
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 313
United Kingdom 1989 Defender 90 Other SW Bonatti Grey
Dixon Fab do a fixture and mount kit
https://dixonfabrication.co.uk/TD5%20ENGIN...CONVERSION 1989 90 4.3 V8
2012 L405 OF
2014 D4 HSE Lux (SOLD)
2015 90 HT (SOLD)
@d9o.mf
Post #919548 1st Sep 2021 4:42pm
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diesel_jim



Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6092
United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 SW Epsom Green
Another way to help...

If you can get hold of a 300Tdi gearbox crossmember (bolt in, off a discovery), then mount that and bolt the gearbox to it along with the engine (suspended from a crane of course!)

That way you'll have the right front-back location for the engine mounts. as far as I remember when I've built the last couple of Td5's, the engine chassis brackets are the same for both sides.
Post #919571 1st Sep 2021 6:06pm
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zakoos



Member Since: 01 Sep 2021
Location: Paris
Posts: 4
France 2001 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Baltic Blue
Thank you guys, that's great advice and much more helpful than countless replies I had on french boards Mr. Green
Gasket wrote:
Hi Zak.

you might consider calling Richards Chassis or XD chassis. XD in particular build up their chassis using OEM rails and tailor them to suit - there are also other companies that take Puma-era chassis and convert them for use in earlier models.

Instead of asking their advice (which might not be forthcoming), you could ask to buy a Puma-TD5 conversion kit complete with measurements. You might end up paying for brackets you already have, but at least they'd be engaged in supplying the correct measurements.

Just a thought.

Sounds good. I had the impression that only a handful of brands produce the Puma chassis. Do you think I would be able to find out the origin of it?
Chassis picture before painting:


Click image to enlarge

Regarding Dixon, I contacted him to order but he's not willing to export. Told him I have a UK address but no reply for now. Just wanted to make sure that the fitting "template" is suitable for all chassis.
Post #919645 2nd Sep 2021 8:35am
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dorsetsmith



Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554

Click image to enlarge

see below larger pdf


Click image to enlarge

work shop manual My02 showing TD5 engine mount points the only thing i haven't fond is gear box mount centres for td5 i will go out side and have a look at my 90 td5 will report Exclamation

All prox and LR work with +- 2.5 mm

Last edited by dorsetsmith on 2nd Sep 2021 4:59pm. Edited 4 times in total
Post #919654 2nd Sep 2021 10:15am
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3414
Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
If engine mounts were welded in the wrong place, would that not put the distance from engine mount to gearbox mount off, and you would not be either to fit either the gearbox mounts or the engine mounts depending which you engage last?

I am not too familiar with the Td5 engine mount brackets, but are left and right mount brackets the same? If not, possible that you welded left bracket on right side of the chassis? But I believe that the chassis brackets are identical left to right, only the engine brackets are of different lengths.

Edit: dorsetsmith confirmed my thinking. Dimension B = 2A. So left and right mount brackets are equally spaced from centerline. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #919655 2nd Sep 2021 10:23am
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Gasket



Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629
zakoos wrote:

Sounds good. I had the impression that only a handful of brands produce the Puma chassis. Do you think I would be able to find out the origin of it?


I think I'm right in saying that the OEM manufacturer for the puma chassis was GKN Marsland (happy to be corrected). They also sell to the aftermarket. Some companies buy complete Puma Chassis (or even just the main rails) from Marsland and modify them to suit different models.

Re: Dixon's not being willing to export, I'm sure there are plenty of people on the forum who would be willing to receive the delivery in the UK and forward it on to you.
Post #919657 2nd Sep 2021 10:33am
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dorsetsmith



Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554
From a right hand drive but this will be same

374.4mm is from the centre large hole 30mm at inward end bulk head out rigger to the centre for the rear slot for the td5 engine mount both side

500mm driver side gear box mount centre is from the centre large hole 30mm at inward end bulk head out rigger to the centre of gear box mount slot and 59mm from chassis inner side to centre of gear box mount slot

510mm pas side gear box mount centre is from the centre large hole 30mm at inward end bulk head out rigger to the centre of gear box mount slot and 32 mm from chassis inner side to centre of gear box mount slot

All prox and LR work with +- 2.5 mm

Last edited by dorsetsmith on 2nd Sep 2021 1:48pm. Edited 2 times in total
Post #919664 2nd Sep 2021 11:26am
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dorsetsmith



Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554
this will be handy for set mount angle

https://www.whitehill-tools.com/spares-acc...330S00100/
Post #919666 2nd Sep 2021 12:07pm
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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5843
United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue
zakoos wrote:

Regarding Dixon, I contacted him to order but he's not willing to export. Told him I have a UK address but no reply for now. Just wanted to make sure that the fitting "template" is suitable for all chassis.


If you do want these parts I am happy for you to ship to me and then i can send them on to you. 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock
Post #919668 2nd Sep 2021 12:48pm
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zakoos



Member Since: 01 Sep 2021
Location: Paris
Posts: 4
France 2001 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Baltic Blue
@dorsetsmith thank you very much for the measurements! would you have the second page in a better quality?
As of now, the engine is laterally centered. The fan fits perfectly in the cowl.
The only thing that bugs me is a 10mm difference I found for this measure between the rails (63 vs 64cm). Is the Puma chassis supposed to be different?



Click image to enlarge

@Dinnu, brackets are the same yes
@Gasket, Richards confirmed the chassis is not theirs. Will try with Marsland

@excossack thanks for the offer, that's very kind. My company is based in Sheffield so I already have a UK shipping address Very Happy
I'll go ahead and order Dixon's kit (although he could not confirm that it would be 100% suitable for the TD4 chassis)
Post #919680 2nd Sep 2021 3:03pm
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dorsetsmith



Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554
https://www.defender2.net/gallery/albums/u...le0016.PDF


you can read now
Post #919683 2nd Sep 2021 4:03pm
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3414
Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
I have a slightly different chassis dimensional drawings, and the inner dimensions between the chassis rails is stated at 636 - 634mm. So at worse your chassis is 4mm out of spec.
It is not clear in the drawing if this measurement is at the top edge of the chassis rail, or if it is between the 2 brackets that are welded below the rail for the front jacking point. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #919688 2nd Sep 2021 4:52pm
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dorsetsmith



Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554
I have a slightly different chassis dimensional drawings, and the inner dimensions between the chassis rails is stated at 636 - 634mm.

its not show on 110 drawings but looked at 90 drawings and as ^ 636- 634mm

just had look my 90 chassis leg in side dimension 635mm just behind bumper at the top

have you check at several pinots along your chassis may be gav heat has distorted it as i had noted from gav chassis pic that LR tie down have been left in place and the post gav fettling is not been cared out by galvanizers

Last edited by dorsetsmith on 3rd Sep 2021 9:43am. Edited 1 time in total
Post #919699 2nd Sep 2021 6:00pm
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