 | Home > INEOS Grenadier > The correct gear stick |
 
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| steveww Member Since: 05 Jan 2022 Location: Uppingham Posts: 566   
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Why did Ineos not do this?
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25th Jul 2024 9:36pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4206 
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I guess Ineos didn't do that because that's a design Toyota own or paid BMW to come up with. I believe the cost of engineering a new shifters is insane relative to what is because of the safety critical function they perform. Ineos probably just couldn't make case for it given the relatively small volumes. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
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26th Jul 2024 6:36am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17359 
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It is more likely to be due to commercial warranties and contractual requirements for the use of the BMW transmission, I would think. It would be (slightly) interesting to know if BMW designed the Supra shifter for Toyota, or if Toyota designed it.
I don't really see how the shifter could be considered safety-critical any more than a gear lever could be unless there is a failure mode whereby a shifter fault can lock the transmission, in which case some very poor design has been allowed. |
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26th Jul 2024 8:35am |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 715
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I agree. There are far more safety critical components and at the end of the day the shifter is just a plastic housing. I image it would be fairly simply to design a new housing while retaining the original pcb too as there are only 2 physical switches on the board (reverse and park buttons).
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26th Jul 2024 9:40am |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4206
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My understandings is it is because it electronically instructs selection of park and gear selection. For example: If you spilt a bottle of water on it and suddenly it leapt into drive from park, or shifted into reverse at 80 there could be consequences. The certification required to show it doesn't do anything it shouldn't and is basically idiot proof is very expensive. It is far cheaper to use the existing shifter which BMW/ZF have already amortised the cost of development of over many thousands of vehicles. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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26th Jul 2024 10:42am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17359
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Essentially I agree but I am sure that the shifter only indicates the driver demand to an ECU and the ECU then controls the transmission. If what you suggest is true, the driver pressing the park button whilst traveling at speed, or selecting reverse or just an inappropriate gear for the speed or direction, would have the same effect. I am fairly sure that the ECU provides the protection, in which case the shifter is not itself an SC component except to the extent that it is part of an SC system.
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26th Jul 2024 12:10pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4206
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Agreed, but it will still need to tested along with the ECU as system, to ensure nothing unexpected can happen in use. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
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26th Jul 2024 1:58pm |
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| LR Nuts Member Since: 10 Aug 2022 Location: UK Posts: 1097 
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When seeing this I was really hoping someone had come up with the 'logical' auto gear shift.
I have driven manual cars all my 50 yrs of driving. Then I get an auto which is so crazy. To select D (Forwards) you move the stick Back. To select R (Reverse) you move the stick forwards. Who came up with this crazy idea ? , so illogical. Don't have a Ineos, but do have a LR New Defender, which uses the same principle. I just want to change it. But then what happens when someone else drives my vehicle ? I can't be the only one here, so why wasn't it made more logical years and years ago ? |
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26th Jul 2024 3:59pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 715
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The BMW ZF8 shifter is horrid imo. It is also designed for lhd not rhd.
As for shifters in autos in general. I think they are logical. It’s just a different logic. When you accelerate you get pushed back in the seat/car. So it makes sense to pull the lever backwards. Likewise when you reverse the force would be pushing the stick away. Similar logic to how pull back for a plane is to go up and pushing forwards is to dive. If you want an illogical setup look at some Mercedes cars that have something that looks and feels like an indicator stalk in an indicator stalk location. But is actually the gear shifter! |
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26th Jul 2024 4:16pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17359
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Every auto I've ever driven has been like that, I don't think it is anything new.
Admittedly I haven't driven an auto more modern than the 1980s and back then the selector always was P R N D 2 1 from forward to back. And reverse in my Puma involves moving the selector forwards, and 2, 4 and 6 involve moving it backwards. I've never felt it was a problem. |
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26th Jul 2024 4:22pm |
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| LR Nuts Member Since: 10 Aug 2022 Location: UK Posts: 1097
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so not only did they get the vehicle wrong ..... they do it on aeroplanes also.  |
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26th Jul 2024 6:00pm |
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| LR Nuts Member Since: 10 Aug 2022 Location: UK Posts: 1097
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Doesn't make it right. I am an engineer and know how things should be, tell me I am wrong. Pure lazyist on behalf of the design designer |
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26th Jul 2024 6:02pm |
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| discomog Member Since: 09 May 2015 Location: Notts/Lincs Border Posts: 2526 
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All modern automatics with floor shift that I have driven (that's a lot) you have to push the lever forward for reverse and pull back for drive. I know some folks prefer the circular knurled knob but that's even more confusing. Defender 90XS SW
Mini Countryman Cooper S Morgan Plus 8 |
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26th Jul 2024 7:15pm |
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| Chugga90 Member Since: 07 Sep 2014 Location: Bucks Posts: 208 |
I really liked the rotary shift on my Discovery 4. Had a column shift on the auto Mercedes sprinter, disliked that muchly.
My Volkswagen Transporters are both more conventional auto levers and are great. Find the lever in the current crop of Range Rover Sports annoying. |
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26th Jul 2024 8:03pm |
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