 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > New Defender 110 off road capabilities compared… |
 
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| cyberhusky Member Since: 09 Feb 2021 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 274  
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Here are 2 clips showing the Off Road capabilities of the new Defender 110 vs Jeep vs Toyota and old Defender (2nd link)
Very impressive though the big wheels of the Jeep are a big advantage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijhVzdQ_dS8 This one shows trails we don't have here in Central Europe unfortunately https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goPuC73EUug 22MY Defender 110 (actual) | 10MY Freelander 2 (history) | 15MY Discovery Sport HSE (history) Last edited by cyberhusky on 10th Apr 2021 4:28pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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10th Apr 2021 3:35pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2638  
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and TFL just did another comparison with the Wrangler:
-- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged 
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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10th Apr 2021 3:37pm |
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| cyberhusky Member Since: 09 Feb 2021 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 274
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@Supacat
The Defender video is a bit out of frame… check the trees they should be vertically not inclined. Click image to enlarge 22MY Defender 110 (actual) | 10MY Freelander 2 (history) | 15MY Discovery Sport HSE (history) |
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10th Apr 2021 5:26pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2634  
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They should take them both to the Rubicon Trail.
Of the two examples i always preferred wheels on the ground and appropriate tyres rather than lift a wheel, and accelerate to spin then brake the wheels to aid traction. Maybe I'm just old school..... |
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10th Apr 2021 7:32pm |
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1316  
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In my opinion, if you put both of them on the same tyres I think old school locked front and rear diffs with reasonable axle articulation will outperform a system that relies on electronics to detect a spinning wheel and slow it down.
You can see in the video how the Defender gets fidgety as traction is lost on a wheel and it works out how to control the spin. In comparison the Wrangler looks to make much smother progress up the climb. But I'm sure the Defender will be a more comfortable long distance road drive. |
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11th Apr 2021 6:44am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8026  
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Preventative systems are always preferable to reactive in my opinion. Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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11th Apr 2021 7:52am |
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| DSL Member Since: 20 Aug 2007 Location: Wandering the wasteland. Posts: 837
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Or is that an artefact of a very wide angle lens? |
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11th Apr 2021 7:59am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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then wouldn't it be the same in both shots?
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11th Apr 2021 8:15am |
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| DSL Member Since: 20 Aug 2007 Location: Wandering the wasteland. Posts: 837
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Looks like they might be the same but the camera has been tilted a little between shots. The V effect looks similar in both pics, but there aren’t as many trees to the right so it’s not as obvious.
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11th Apr 2021 8:19am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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The electronics don’t work like that - they aren’t simply reactive, in any of the Terrain Response modes - there will be a degree of diff pre-locking (and possibly brake pre-load, I think) going on before the wheel even turns. Point is that seeing wheels not solidly-locked across an axle doesn’t necessarily mean that progress isn’t better. The engineers who work on these systems are adamant that they are way, way more effective than the old approach (which is massively cheaper to build and sell). |
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11th Apr 2021 12:21pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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I don't think I've seen a video that has not shown spinning, a pause in progress, even a slip backwards before the system kicks in and progress is made. In cockpit shots always seem to show the diff(s) cycling in and out, or rather varying slip, rather than having any period in a locked state. It never seems to give a sensitive measured rate of progress that simple locked diffs do.
I'd be happy if the JLR engineers put out a series of videos really explaining the systems and the benefits over the "old approach". I like new tech but I'm not seeing anything in the intelligent AWD that looks better for off roading. |
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11th Apr 2021 12:38pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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I know that the screen indicators don’t tell the full story of what’s going on with the diffs. Operation of Terrain Response has nothing to do per se with Intelligent All-Wheel Drive (which the car in the video doesn’t have, anyway).
Why would companies spend huge amounts of time and money developing off-road systems if a 1940s-tech, ultra-cheap manual diff lock was just better? Could it be be because what impresses pretend lumberjacks and pioneer men on the internet does not necessarily translate to real world use? |
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11th Apr 2021 1:06pm |
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| cyberhusky Member Since: 09 Feb 2021 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 274
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I never drove the old 4x4 cars. Since my childhood I was always impressed by 4x4 and always wanted a Defender. Now I will have one although it will be the new one. But these videos show that the new Defender with its electronic terrain response is very capable. Especially the rocky track shown in the video, I don't think we have such routes here in Europe and if we have, they are closed for public use to protect nature, climate etc.
My point is the new Defender sells very well and makes off-road possible to people who never did that before, the terrain response does it for them, even if you have to study computer science to understand which mode to choose. Like snow mode works better in mud than the mud mode (at least that is the case with my Discovery Sport). I think the New Defender makes off-road traveling much more luxury and easy, most people won't drive such rocky tracks, at best countryside routes with mud and snow or a ride in the forest. 22MY Defender 110 (actual) | 10MY Freelander 2 (history) | 15MY Discovery Sport HSE (history) |
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11th Apr 2021 2:15pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Honest question ~ what do they show then?
Did JLR or their predecessors ever fit an axle diff lock? Why not? Remember you are asking that question of a company that's just written off £1.5 billion on what was thought by those in charge as "better" but turns out now not to be... Lots of decisions get baked into projects, not always for the best reasons. |
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11th Apr 2021 2:42pm |
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