 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Puma tow bar bolts spinning |
 
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17388   
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The threaded inserts are part of the cross member, I'm afraid. On a 110 you have no option to put long bolts all the way through the cross member due to the fuel tank, so you probably have no option but to cut the cross member to install a nut-plate inside it.
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11th May 2021 9:03pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20382
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That’s a tough situation, this was why with mine I took those out when fairly new.
And refitted deliberately with copper slip to ensure that they would not seize. What I’ve found often happens is the captive thread remains fine. The exposed bolt thread corrodes and swells with corrosion and binds the threads up. You can’t get behind to clean off threads which creates the issue. Hence why they crack off, wind back a little then seize up due to the threads not being clean and clear. A real pain, I’m sure Blackwolf’s suggestion is the best route if you are stuck, there isn’t much he cannot get properly repaired.  $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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11th May 2021 9:11pm |
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| Bundy Member Since: 21 Sep 2020 Location: Cheshire Posts: 98
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Thanks for that Blackwolf. I thought that might be the best/only option. I best get my accurate head on for this one!
Thanks too Steve...I’m slowly learning that many of the bolts have never been turned since birth...4 gearbox bell housing bolts sheared while doing the clutch 
Much grease/copper slip/etc is being used now it’s under my ownership 
Cheers Al |
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11th May 2021 9:19pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20382
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Captive nuts are awful, I will avoid them at all costs but as you know there are a few that are already installed.
If there is ever got in trouble after a period of time you can bet your life it will be them. Rivnuts are another pain.  $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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11th May 2021 9:53pm |
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| camelman Member Since: 27 Feb 2013 Location: Peak District Posts: 3373
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Also worth checking that the receiver hitch is legal / type aproved for your truck.
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12th May 2021 6:59am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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It should be for a 2009 DCPU. From memory, it's from 2012 that it gets difficult. Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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12th May 2021 7:10am |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4210 
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Sound like right hassle Bundy, I wish you luck.
Any advice for having this not happen to me? I have a 2007 Puma 110 and want to temporarily remove the towbar, but wondering if that’s a wise idea now. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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12th May 2021 7:15am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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Perhaps some sort of wand or lance to spray Plusgas or similar on the back of the bolts? It's a bit hit and miss, though. Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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12th May 2021 7:16am |
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| boxoftricks Member Since: 06 Feb 2019 Location: Home Counties Posts: 747 
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To stop this from happening I'd spray a load of releasing agent in there every day for a week to really soak them then using a hand wrench or if needed a breaking bar rock to rock the bolts backward and forwards to try and break the initial bond, I'd steer clear of an impact wrench at all costs.
If super stuck you can also get a cooling spray that will cause the metal to contract but I've never used on bolts that size so unsure of how good it will work. |
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12th May 2021 7:25am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17388
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You can relatively easily apply lubricant or penetrant on the back of the two BS Au 114a M16 fasteners by using the two access holes for the fuel tank retainer in the cross-member.
The BS Au24 M12 fasteners are impossible to lubricate effectively in situ. The n/s fuel tank retained access hole is clearly visible on this photo: Click image to enlarge If you are desperate to remove the bolts and they really won't unscrew but are not spinning the inserts, you could consider cutting them off flush with the crossmember then screwing the stub end all the way through *into* the cross-member, since the rusty thread will be on the inside of the insert this shouldn't be too difficult. You may then be able to remove the fragment through the holes mentioned above. |
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12th May 2021 11:01am |
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| Bundy Member Since: 21 Sep 2020 Location: Cheshire Posts: 98
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Just stuck my fingers in the hole pictured above and there is no access to any of the 6 bolt holes...it appears to be a sealed box they reside in unfortunately.
Nothing was moving them to start with, thus the usage of the impact gun...but maybe if I’d got them started I may have been better rocking them back and forth with lube and a breaker bar...but hindsight is so wonderful 
I had been spraying several different potions in there for a while, but if there’s lots of rust on the bolt ends I suppose that will usually win unless you can clean them up first. As for type approval, I’m under the impression commercials are fine
Cheers Al |
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12th May 2021 11:44am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17388
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Ah, OK, my mistake. I must be thinking of the vertical bolts holding the reinforcement to the bottom of my crossmember, sorry for the misleading post.
Re the TA, pre-2012 N1 vehicles can use non-type-approved towing gear, but pre-2012 M1 must be TA. From 2012 onwards both N1 and M1 must be TA. There is however no legal reason why you can't fit a non-TA receiver hitch to a vehicle which requires TA provided you don't use it for towing a trailer on the road, so if you use it for a recovery shackle or only in places to which the RTAs don't apply (on private property where the public has no access) there is no issue. |
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12th May 2021 12:15pm |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 2010
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Thanks for sharing what seems to be a real nasty problem you’re faced with Bundy.
My tow bar has only been on for a year so I’m now going to remove the bolts, hoping I don’t experience the same issues , and liberally coat bolts and captive nuts ( if I can get to them) with grease. Being careful when I torque up the bolts as the grease will potentially cause over torque. I’m thinking of using copper slip or Morris k48 and keen to know what people think is best to prevent rust on the threads or suggest a better solution. Re the rust on the bolt threads. I’ve never looked at this part of the crossmember in detail , so is this issue caused by the bolts extending through the captive nuts and then out the back of the crossmember, leaving them open to corrosion. If so I’m not sure how much grease would be left on the bolt threads once they have been through the nuts. If the problem is them protruding through the back of the crossmember then i’m contemplating, with careful measurement, cutting the bolts down so they are flush with the back end of the nut. Leaving no protruding threads to corrode and cause issues removing them. Also, would dropping the tank allow access to the corroded bolt ends to clean them up before attempting removal if they are proving difficult to shift. |
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12th May 2021 12:39pm |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 2010
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^^^^^^^^^
Answering my own question. Just had a look and can see the threaded section is on the front inner face of the rear crossmember so bolts don’t go right through and out of the back of the crossmember.. The bolt end being contained within a boxed in section of the crossmember. So I can see the problem this is causing to gain access. Has anyone got a picture of the inside of this section to see how this is constructed as this may help in working out how to address bundy’s issue. If not I will see if I can get an endoscope in there to take one. |
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12th May 2021 1:46pm |
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