 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > 2008 Puma 110 DCPU Front diff failure. |
 
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17602   
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Failure of the two-gear front diff is far from unusual, and you are lucky that it was uneventful. When mine failed (also without warning) I almost completely lost the ability to steer, since the differential (fortunately not the pinion) locked solid. Driving home through a built-up area, complete with ridiculous mini-roundabouts, on tarmac, with a fully-locked front diff was interesting to say the least, and only really possible because it was a very wet day.
The weakness in the two-gear diff is the fact that all the drive is put through the single cross-pin, which causes the holes in the diff carrier to elongate, and eventually either the pin falls out, or the pin breaks, or more commonly it breaks and falls out. This will generally cause a complete loss of differential action. If you are really unluckey the debris will then destroy the crownwheel and pinion, and can even lock the axle solid. To Landrover of course this well-known fault isn't a fault and needs no action. It is unusual however for the diff to fail in a completely silent and benign way, and it is possible that you lost the splines on a halfshaft rather than lost the diff. Incidentally (and not intended as a criticism) it baffles me why so many people talk about "2 pin" and "4 pin" diffs. Your diff will have 2 side gears, 2 differential gears, one cross-pin, one crownwheel, and one pinion. So whether "pin" means cross-pin or pinion, there is only one. A four-gear diff has four differential gears, two side gears, two cross-pins (or more commonly one spider), one crownwheel, and one pinion, so it could possibly be a 2 cross-pin diff but the only thing of which there are four are the differential gears. I find the "2 pin" and "4 pin" nomenclature both technically irritating and baffling! 
The pictures below show the state of mine when I took it out.  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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29th Oct 2020 7:29pm |
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434  
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Was just speaking about this to my mechanic yesterday
https://www.instagram.com/p/CD35gZIsGOC/?igshid=14kvi2c3r83oa Roaming around 🇳🇴🇨🇭 |
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29th Oct 2020 8:25pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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The spec. sheet on Topix for my 2013 110 says it has 'AXLE DIFFERENTIAL-FRONT 2 PIN'. So, is that an inaccurately described single cross-pin diff or a slightly less inaccurately described two cross-pin unit? Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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29th Oct 2020 9:53pm |
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| Defender SVX Member Since: 29 Jan 2009 Location: Co Durham Posts: 730 
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Thanks for the info so far
Depending on damage I’ll probably be rebuilding. Sort of looking forward to it having never having to rebuild a differential before only replacing
Last one I changed was on a 2006 Mercedes Actros 2544 6x2 midlift, after a heavy climb up a local quarry in diff lock it decided to give up 10 miles later (diff lock disengaged) just onto a dual carriageway with aloud metallic rattle followed by loss of drive, self diagnosing I called the depot and within 3 hours the fitter and I had the in stock rebuilt unit fitted and then back to the depot for torque and sign off 
Same outfit I work with now would require a recovery team, heavy lift crane then back to the main dealer and a final written warning for me for daringly to inspect their vehicle  can’t wait for self driving trucks  Formerly mao99999
16 Focus RS Nitrous Blue. 11 FFRR TDV8 Vouge SE Black Black. 08 DEFENDER SVX SOFT TOP (SUPERB) 08 DEFENDER 110 DCPU Stornoway grey (Overland Exploration Unit) 05 Fiesta ST 150 Van 04 Jaguar XKR 4.2 Supercharged V8 02 DEFENDER 90 TD5 (next years soft top project) 95 DEFENDER 110 CSW 300 TDi Phoenix black 95 DEFENDER 90 HT Monti Carlo blue COUNTY 300 TDi 67 109" SERIES 2a TUNED 200 TDI 64 DAVID BROWN 990 rat look 55 86" SERIES 1 |
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29th Oct 2020 10:25pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17602
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If it is a diff failure it really isn't worth rebuilding a 2-gear diff, and Rover pattern 4-gear diffs are hard to find and pricey. When mine failed it was cheaper to buy a new Ashcroft ATB (which is far stronger) than a reconditioned diff from LR. If the crown wheel and pinion are good still, build the assembly round wither and ATB, Ashlocker, or Ashcroft 4-gear core and get a better, stronger, and cheaper diff.
LRA- it will undoubtedly be a 2-gear diff I'm afraid. Although LR has claimed that it stopped using 2s on LWB Defenders from c.2010, it is very evident from this forum that it did nothing of the kind. |
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29th Oct 2020 10:43pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8169  
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^^^ I have had three 11my defenders all had 2 gear front diffs. Cheers
James 110 2010 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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30th Oct 2020 9:24am |
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| Matt110 Member Since: 29 Jun 2014 Location: UK Posts: 685
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Any way to know for sure what's in my 2014 110 without stripping the case?
Is that far enough away from 2010 that they'd run out of stock? Not too worried just interested what it's likely to have. |
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30th Oct 2020 11:49am |
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| hank Member Since: 12 Sep 2016 Location: South Wales Posts: 2316 
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Does anybody have a photo of (what is commonly known as) a 4 pin diff for comparison?
Presumably it is enclosed rather than having the gaping cutout in the side, has an extra pair of planet gears and a cross pin rather than single pin? Are these found as standard equipment or only aftermarket? > 110 XS Double Cab |
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30th Oct 2020 12:07pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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Thanks  I'll confess that it was a slightly mischievous question to highlight the fact that even LR called these things 2 pin diffs  Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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30th Oct 2020 2:03pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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My information comes from the Topix spec. sheet for my vehicle. You can find it there too, or on one of the VIN decoder sites. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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30th Oct 2020 2:05pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17602
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The easiest way to tell for sure is to remove the oil filler and peer through the hole with a torch. If what you see looks like this...
Click image to enlarge ... then you have a two-gear diff. If however it looks like this ... Click image to enlarge ... you are one of the lucky ones with a four-gear diff. If you have a TruTrak, Ashlocker, Ashcroft ATB, or ARM Airlocker without knwoing it (as if!) it will look similar to the four-gear unit. There is more info on the megasquirt site, well worth a look, here: https://www.megasquirt-v8.co.uk/diff_a_z.php
There were fitted as standard to 110 and 130 vehicles only post 2011/12 but no-one really knows when or to how many vehicles, and many vehicles which *should* have them evidently don't. I guess that that was about the time that Landrover's approach to quality became "it's only got to last long enough to get out of the showroom, after which anything that breaks means more income for us". |
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30th Oct 2020 3:52pm |
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434
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Ok, must do! Let’s see what’s in my 2015... Roaming around 🇳🇴🇨🇭
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30th Oct 2020 5:48pm |
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| Defender SVX Member Since: 29 Jan 2009 Location: Co Durham Posts: 730
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Stripped down today and removed the diff an as expected exactly the same failure as the rest pictured
with a lot less elongation.
Going to bite the bullet and go for a Ashcroft rebuilt “4 gear” unit. Reassembled loosely for photos. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Formerly mao99999 16 Focus RS Nitrous Blue. 11 FFRR TDV8 Vouge SE Black Black. 08 DEFENDER SVX SOFT TOP (SUPERB) 08 DEFENDER 110 DCPU Stornoway grey (Overland Exploration Unit) 05 Fiesta ST 150 Van 04 Jaguar XKR 4.2 Supercharged V8 02 DEFENDER 90 TD5 (next years soft top project) 95 DEFENDER 110 CSW 300 TDi Phoenix black 95 DEFENDER 90 HT Monti Carlo blue COUNTY 300 TDi 67 109" SERIES 2a TUNED 200 TDI 64 DAVID BROWN 990 rat look 55 86" SERIES 1 |
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30th Oct 2020 6:04pm |
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| dailysleaze Member Since: 23 May 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 237
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What state was it in when you took of it out? Pin fully out?
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30th Oct 2020 6:59pm |
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