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MalteseRover

Member Since: 02 Jul 2013
Location: Gozo
Posts: 137

clutch slip - time to replace?

Hello

I am not sure if the clutch in question has been in there for 10 or 12 years now. My 109 s3 2.25 diesel has seen 2 trips (Alps/Switzerland) and is on a hobby farm carrying stuff and also towing a plant trailer with a small tractor regularly during sowing and harvest around the island ( trailer = 1tonne +/- over hilly roads - requiring a lot of driving in lower gears)

I started feeling like there is a slip on 4th back in July. Now it is more noticeable but as soon as I feel it i downshift and rarely rev the engine. It kind of feels like slipping on 3rd too but rarely. It does it mostly when approaching hill climbs or when accelerating when shifting up.

>Wading plug is not there, some drips of gear oil can be seen coming out but there isn't any puddle formed overnight underneath it. And it is usually facing down on a slight incline.
>hydraulic system renewed a couple of years ago with Lockheed/Delphi parts - pedal has the usual free play.
>Gear selection is good.
>clutch plate and parts were bought locally and old stock not cheap branded.

Is it ok to think that the clutch needs replacing? It is quite a job and don't wish to go through it to find out that the clutch has plenty more left to it. If there was an issue with hydraulic system (faulty master cylinder or flexible) the slip would be felt through out all the gears.

Joseph

3rd Oct 2020 4:49am

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3425

2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black

Hi Joseph, if clutch is slipping, unfortunately it will only get worse.
Higher gears will mean more load on the engine, hence the slippage on 4th and 3rd. Lower gears have a greater mechanical advantage.

I doubt that the hydraulic system is the root cause. However, the master cylinder has a non return valve.. it should let any residual pressure in the clutch hydraulic system to relieve when the clutch pedal is up. But if the adjustment of the clutch pedal is not correct, the system can maintain pressure, forcing the release bearing on the pressure plate. Easy way to check this is to remove the slave from the bellhousing ( do not undo the hydraulic), and see if you can push the piston inside the slave cylinder. Doing so you will push oil back in the reservoir. Make sure you do not overflow the oil in the reservoir. The paintwork will not be happy with dot 3 or dot 4 oil.

If the hydraulic is ok, then it will be an engine or gearbox out. Dont know which is easiest on a Series. If gearbox out, need to remove the seatbox. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

3rd Oct 2020 8:35am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17450

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Sounds like time for a new clutch, certainly.

Generally on a series engine out is probably easier, with better access, easier lifting, and fewer corroded body fasteners to remove.

3rd Oct 2020 8:59am

MalteseRover

Member Since: 02 Jul 2013
Location: Gozo
Posts: 137

Finally a long weekend to have a look into the clutch problem.

It was shot, worn down to the rivets. It managed to eat away at the pressure plate face. Flywheel side looks smooth but many hairline cracks. My feeling is pull it out and get it skimmed but engine looks like will need a rebuild soon. (next to no compression and burning oil)

chassis patching and new oil seals for gearbox while all the bits are out

Joe

Click image to enlarge

2nd Nov 2020 8:21am

MalteseRover

Member Since: 02 Jul 2013
Location: Gozo
Posts: 137

Hi,

clutch replaced. flywheel skimmed (0.1mm taken off - lots of cracks and a slight groove) it was already under by 1 or 2mm but been ok for the past 15 years so thought 0.1 would not matter. new bush, some chassis rust removed. seals on gearbox input/output shafts replaced. transfer case preload set to 4kg. clutch slave and master were replaced months ago. hand brake adjusted after heavy degreasing - just clicks 3 times and then it is tight to pull up.

Clutch pedal is surprisingly soft (due to new pressure plate) System is free from air as it was not opened and kept topped up. gear engaging but not as easy and loosely as before - could be due to the tightened output shaft bearings - No clapping/clocking when shifting out of gears.

occasionally when taking off there is a sound of rubbing metal (hissing) parts

I did start torqueing the pressure plate with the wrench set to 65lbft, i realised that after the 2 bolt. The correct limit is 25lbft. is it possible to damage the friction material or pressure plate by such over tightening? I am thinking it might be hand brake shoes catching the drum at times. the drum feels cold to the touch after 10 mile runs. Thoughts?

Regards.
joseph

23rd Nov 2020 6:01pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17450

MalteseRover wrote:
... I did start torqueing the pressure plate with the wrench set to 65lbft, i realised that after the 2 bolt. The correct limit is 25lbft. is it possible to damage the friction material or pressure plate by such over tightening? ...

No, you might strip the thread or shear the setscrew, but you won't have damaged the driven plate and you are unlikely to have damaged the cover.

23rd Nov 2020 6:39pm

MalteseRover

Member Since: 02 Jul 2013
Location: Gozo
Posts: 137

thanks,
I did not reach the 65lbft mark it just felt like not reaching a tight "spot" I put new 8.8 13mm bolts all around.
Will see how it does

23rd Nov 2020 9:21pm

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